[MUSIC] So in this video, we're going to chat again with the John Hornick who you met earlier. But this time, we're going to ask him to share his experience in the intellectual property issues around 3D printing. Now IP issues become important here because the moment you digitize a physical product and you make it shareable easily on either on platforms or as a one to one sharing between individuals or businesses, you start to see instances of intellectual property violations. So we'll get a sense of what intellectual property really means in the context of 3D printing. And he brings some interesting perspectives to the table, where he talks about something that's within control and away from control. Suggesting that traditional intellectual property discussions are about what firms can do when they know about what's happening with their products or designs or even copyrights. So that's the within control part. But his view is that a lot of the innovation that's happening, leveraging 3D printers or other forms of making digitally, is a way from control. That firms don't know about it because it's happening in your home, in your garage or even within businesses who are not really sharing what they're doing. So that sort of puts an interesting perspective on intellectual property. And you would think that the view would be that this is going to stifle innovation. And in contrast, his view is that quite frankly, it doesn't matter. Because a lot of the innovation happens away from control. So join us as we speak to John. Help us understand the issues that arise with IP in this space. >> IP principles apply to 3D printing just as they apply in any other area of technology. But what's different here is the potential scale at which we could have people making parts or products with 3D printing that we didn't have before. Used to be only big companies, they can make parts or products. But with the democratization of manufacturing, potentially anyone, any customer, any consumer, could make whatever they need. So then that raises the question, well, how does the intellectual property owner protect himself in a situation where virtually anybody could be making copies of the parts or products that manufacturer sells? And I have made a distinction, in the lectures that I've given and in articles that I've written, between what I call within control and away from control. And within control it's pretty much the world that we know it now. If a company makes a product and they sell it through their normal channels, and someone copies that and they infringe their IP rights, they can be sued. And that's all within control, it's all visible, we can see it happening. So if we can see it happening, we can stop it. But away from control is the ability to make virtually anything with virtually any functionality without anyone knowing about it or without anyone being able to control it. What would be the effect on traditional business models? What would be the effect on intellectual property if anyone could make virtually any product with any functionality without anyone knowing about it or without anyone being able to control it? The result of that is that if you have an increased amount of that happening, it could either be a customer of a manufacturer, or it could be a consumer in his or her home. Then the infringement starts to increase substantially. Because you have all kinds of people out there who are making things that might be protected by IP. So the infringement goes up. But it becomes more and more difficult to identify it, because it's away from control. You don't really know it's happening or where it's happening. And if you can't identify it, then it becomes impossible or impractical to enforce those IP rights. And at that point, intellectual property essentially becomes irrelevant. And that could be extremely disruptive to any kind of a company that makes parts, or any kind of consumer product. And it really depends on whether and when it becomes common and easy for customers or consumers to be able to make whatever they need away from control. >> And not just 3D printers, it expands to desktop CNC machines or desktop lasers, or any other smaller form, we talk about digital making as a sort of a umbrella term. In this continuum of a home user versus a corporate, when do these issues become salient?. >> With the digital music revolution, people started to become knowledgeable of, or at least aware of, the fact that we have these things out there called copyrights. And that people have rights to protect from copying of the music. And with 3D printing now, people at least who are involved in the industry are becoming more and more aware of not just copyrights, but of patents. Because patents are, in many respect, a more powerful right. Because they give someone the right to prevent others from making, using or selling whatever's covered by that patent. So when you say, when will it become relevant? Well, for somebody who's making things at home and they're using them in their home, they're probably not going to care, they're not going to think about it. On the industrial level, companies do look at this and they do look at whether they're infringing someone else's rights. Now the end result of all of this, whether it's consumer of whether it's on the on a corporate level, is that I believe that it will become more and more common to make things away from control. It will become so ubiquitous at some point, IP owners will probably just have to throw up their hands and say, there's nothing we can do about this. And also at the same time, business models are going to be shifting, so that they're going to be moving away from selling products to selling designs. And so at the same time that increased amount of 3D printing away from control is happening, I think we'll be shifting from product business models to design business models. So everything will change when you can make anything away from control. Something that I have a talked about from time to time is that the machines, in order for them to become as ubiquitous as I'm talking about. In order for people to be making virtually anything that they need away from control, the machines have to be extremely easy to use, the software has to be extremely easy to use. And we're not really there yet. The machines are fairly, at least consumer-grade machines, are fairly primitive right now. But when we get to the point, and I think we will get to the point, when 3D printers are as easy to use as a bread machine, and where you have an app and you just go onto your phone and you just select the part that you need and you press print and then when you get home, they're waiting for you. Then I think that we will see the degree of 3D printing away from control that I'm talking about. >> I think this specialization is trying to address that as well. Make people aware of what's possible, what are the concerns, and then we're taking them through discussing how the software works, and you model it and you try that out. And how 3D printing works at the consumer level. And then actually print something out. So I think curriculums like this, which are now also being available in schools, will probably help address the lack of that literacy in digital making. >> They certainly will and I think a lot of different things will happen. It's difficult to say that we're going to go down one particular path. I think that we'll have more and more people who are taking an interest in 3D printing. I think kids are really going to drive the adoption of the technology to a great extent because they see them now. They want to use them. They're seeing them more and more in schools and in libraries. Their friends might have one. Parents might want kids to have one so that they can learn the technology for the future, maybe be able to have a job in the future. We'll also see companies that are printing things down the block for you. And that's something we don't have right now but I think we will, where you can say well I need a mug so, I need an Illinois mug, so I can just have it printed right down the street. We will have more and more people who will go on the Internet looking for designs and download them. But then we'll have a lot of people who'll just do it a really easy way. They'll have an app and they'll just print things, and it will either show up in their home printer or it'll show up in the machine that's down the street, on the corner store. So a lot of different things will happen, this technology will weave its way into our lives in a lot of different ways. >> John, tell us, do you think your job will even exist in the future? >> So a lot of people ask me that because, obviously, I'm an intellectual property lawyer and I talk about the potential demise of intellectual property. I think there will always be a role for intellectual property. There will always be this manufacturing of things, and making things within control. It would increase the amount of infringement away from control, and companies will do what they can to prevent that. And they will want to protect their rights, and they'll want to enforce their rights. So I think there will always be a role for intellectual property lawyers. So will they be able eliminated entirely? No, but I think that the practice will change substantially over the years. And it's changed for many other reasons and this is just one of the reasons why it will continue to change as time goes on. >> Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and your expertise. So we hope you've got some perceptions around what IP really means in this space. And we look forward to discussing some of the other concepts in the other modules as well, so thank you. >> Thanks for having me. [MUSIC]
