We're here with a wonderful guest, Rebecca Gomperts. Thank you, Rebecca, for being with us. Hello. >> Hello. Thank you for inviting me. >> You are now in Amsterdam, but you're always traveling for your work and your practice. One of the reasons that I thought it would be really exciting for students to learn from you and your work is that there's a particular project, Women on Waves, that you've been working on for a while. It's very significant in relation to social moments, but also, you have a really interesting background. Before we even get into that project, there are not that many people in the world to out artists and then also physicians who studied medicine. You were part of the environmental movement before you started Women on Waves. How did that all start coming together for you as you developed your knowledge base, that relationship between art and medicine? >> That is a very difficult question. I think that perhaps these two things are not so different as some people want to believe or believe. For me, the reason why I started studying medicine was from a perspective that I, as a human being, wanted to add to improvement of the world and to the well-being of people. When I was studying medicine, I realized that I really, really like to study, and it's very interesting because it's really about the basic understanding of what life is and about the functioning of human bodies and nature. But the environment in which it plays, which is hospitals usually, I didn't particularly feel at home there. I also missed the more of a creative side of it. It does exist medicine, I have to say it does, especially in the research part, but at that point, I was still studying so I didn't have any research experience. And that was when I started the art school, and for me, the art school was really interesting because I think what good art does, it's giving people a different perspective on life, and on reality. A perspective that may be beautiful or ugly, but it's different, it's opening up our view and I think it's a very useful skill to have when you're practicing medicine, as well. The interesting thing, in the Netherlands, a doctor is called an arts, so an arts is not that different. >> It's not. That's interesting. >> For me, it was actually a very natural process. I had been trained as a [INAUDIBLE] and I sailed with Greenpeace at the time. I was at sea, I learned about activism from Greenpeace, and I was an fighter. Actually, Women on Waves, the idea behind this is that when I was sailing with Greenpeace, I found out about certain countries where abortion was illegal. I didn't know that before. Women were really suffering from that, if they had a lot of pregnancies, they will try to find any way get [INAUDIBLE]. [INAUDIBLE] >> Sometimes they risk their health or they die even if they don't have access to safe abortion methods. The idea to have a Dutch ship that travels to countries where abortion is illegal, where it can take women onboard, in national waters or in harbor and sail out to international waters. [INAUDIBLE] It's 12 miles, it's about three hours sailing. This was a very simple idea and in a sense, it was a need driven idea so I learned about these women in need of abortions and I was in a context where a solution was presented to me in leadership and [INAUDIBLE]. Actually, it was the whole idea started as of really a practical solution. I think it is a really great thing because nothing would happen without it and then it turned out to be a really great advocacy tool. Now we set up a lot of other projects like Women on Web, which is an online abortion service, to also really respond to this need that women have where abortions are legal. >> One of the things that I find quite powerful and interesting in your work, in addition to all of the services that it provides, but also its creativity in combining art and medicine, is how creative it is in relation to what people could call the cracks in the system. We are always dealing with laws and some laws we consider to be legitimate but as activists, there's often laws in place that we consider to be illegitimate. >> Yes. [LAUGH] >> This is the case with your project that you're not trying to be a criminal, you're just trying to deal with those laws that are illegitimate, and [INAUDIBLE]. >> Actually, what is interesting about a law, I think it's not really black and white. It's about how we interpret the law often and lawyers are usually very conservative in the way they interpret law. So, there's an idea based on an assumption. The assumption is that international territory, abortions don't onboard a Dutch ship. In practice, there's a lot of other things. There's an jurisprudence and things and then you work with lawyers. What are these other things? So we go to do this, you can tell me that I shouldn't do it, but if we're going to do it, how can we best do it without breaking the law? That's usually how it works. >> Right. >> Because that is their duty, especially when it is on the verge on what is allowed or not allowed, to keep people safe. The idea is that you don't break the law, you stay within the law, but you're pushing it, and then in essence, you put rights and it gives you a lot of space. >> There's also that history within both medicine and art, when new inventions are developed or treatments, as well as the avant garde, has also been on the edge of legality, having to work out that relationship between. Sometimes laws are not just have to be interpreted, but haven't even been defined for anything and so it's about the ethics of it. How do we deal with the ethical? What, in addition to this Women on Waves, and Women on Web, what is the future for you? What are you planning up right now? >> A half a year ago, we launched a new campaign, the abortion drone, and we flew abortion pills from Germany to women in Poland, and that was totally new projects, that we tried to figure out. Drones are very sexy now. They are used for a lot of different purposes. For military intervention, but also, for example, to spot illegal people at sea to save them or to wildlife. So we thought we wanna explore how they can also be used for abortion rights and I think we will do that campaign more often in different countries. So that will be one part. The other part, which is the on going service that we deliver is Women on Web and that is growing. We are adding new languages so that we can help women wherever they are in the world to find the best solution for their situation. Whether it's local help, it's legal providers that we know, or it's building up networks or whether it is having the pills sent through by mail. >> If people want to get involved in Women on Web, what's the best way for them to get involved, does it have to do with where they are? Or is there a standard way in which you would like to get people involved? >> The work of women online usually, so people work on the internet, so they can work from everywhere in the world. I think the most important is that the women don't know about medical abortion, about the fact they can safely do an abortion with pills, that these pills are available. I think that when people want to help, they can go to the website, womenonweb.org. Send us an email and we'll send them a list of suggestions about how they can reach women in their community. So that the more people are informed about this safe possibility that women can use themselves at home. >> Thank you so much for taking time and I think we'll all be following your projects and work, and I'm sure many of our students will want to join or do similar kind of work, it's very expiring. >> Thank you, I look forward to see the responses. >> Yes, thank you, Rebecca. >> Okay, thanks. >> Bye. >> Bye, Buh-bye.
