I'm here with Danny Morris. >> Hi, Bonnie, [LAUGH] hey buddy. >> Danny is a 30-year professor here at Berkeley playing the fabulous bass. >> Yeah, the electric bass. >> The electric bass. We wrote a whole thing on bass, and we want you to kind of demonstrate some of the stuff about playing bass. So I want to start with just asking you to go through the four strings on the bass and tell us what they are [LAUGH]. >> Okay, I mean this is a standard tuning, and so the lowest string is tuned to an E [SOUND], and then we move in fourths upto A [SOUND], and then we go to D, [SOUND] and then we go to G. [SOUND] So that's standard tuning on a bass. But people do lots of stuff nowadays, and there are five string basses- >> You can get the extra string. >> Yeah, and I even have a little flipper here. [SOUND] So I have a low D available, if you ever want that. And I would use it sparingly, but it's kind of fun to pull it out every now and then. >> Well, that's huge, because D is a big songwriter key. >> Yeah, right. >> And it's my favorite key. >> Yep, yeah. >> So we're already best friends. >> Yeah, well- >> [LAUGH] >> We are, yeah, but that's pretty much all you need. >> So what's the best range to play it on the bass? It's from the bottom, obviously, but do you ever play lines up here? >> On occasion, our good friend, Bobby Globe, has a wonderful bass fill that he does. But he actually stole it from Chuck Rainey, who played bass on many many songs. And it seems like whenever there's an E minor chord [SOUND], something like that, which if you're a piano player or a guitar player, it's kind of like E sus, E, A ,D. And I don't know, for anybody watching or taking your course, if you don't know anything about music theory, a lot of times we use numbers to codify, I assume- >> Right. >> You're doing that in the core, so I just said E sus one, four, flat seven. But I always tell people if they don't know the number theory yet, just make a sound and if it sounds cool, it's good. >> [LAUGH] >> And then theory will come in later. >> I think that's a good way to approach music. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We always think we have to know everything before we try anything, but I think actually it might be better the other way around. >> I say over-analysis leads to paralysis. So you don't want that. But then what's fun about the bass is you can get melodic or support. You already defined it as the lowest point, and I think we define a chord that way. [SOUND] Now, that's a C chord, but I can also go [SOUND] and that now is the relative minor or the A minor. So that darkens it up, and I know you as a song writer, you and Sarah B, love changing the vibe from a lyric, you could go from a major to its relative minor. And I could take care of that, while the guitarist and the keyboard player stays- >> Play the same notes. >> Yeah. >> And so that brings me to the next question which is sort of, you have a kind of critical function in a band, in an ensemble. >> I feel that way [LAUGH]. >> It's actually probably one of the most powerful positions which is to kind of be a really important part of the rhythm, you're kind of setting the rhythmic framework, and you're controlling the harmony, because you are playing the lowest note. >> Yep, you can be a vibe changer from [MUSIC] And now we have F major seven. [MUSIC] Yeah. >> That's so pretty. >> And now we could have, [MUSIC] The Carol King G source. >> [LAUGH] Yeah. >> I mean, you have all these chords. So before I played bass I played piano, I was a trumpet major in college, so I kind of got all these different sources, from the melody to the harmony. And then I realized the power of this instrument. And a roommate of mine had a bass so I'm like, let me try that thing, and I just fell in love with it and started listening to all my records again through the lens of the bass player. >> Right. >> And got introduced to this whole world, which you're hip to because I know some of your writing. I mean, you know how to think like a bass player, you get it, and- >> I play left hand. >> Yeah, well- >> I still, though, feel like, I mean, bass players, when they get a hold of songs, really do a lot of little things to kind of change and move things along that most piano players don't do. >> Yep, I think there are nuances that are created on the bass that the great bass players from the west coast, where you're from, the Leland Sklars, and the Nathan Easts, and Bob, and Ape Arboreal, and all these great people that I learned from by taking apart records. Eventually a fluency develops in your hands, and you get it. But my main job, I think, is to interpret what your intention is, yet you live it to me because I've developed this fluency on this thing that I've just spent years playing, now it's 40 years playing this thing. >> So I mean, that's really interesting, because you've been playing for so long that a lot of the decisions that you make about what you're going to play or make kind of sort of automatically. I mean, if you take it apart a little bit, what would you say that you do that kind of a typical keyboard player who's playing bass doesn't do that creates more fluidity or more kind of vibe in the low end? >> There's Tambor, the sound quality of the note. So [SOUND] I like a muted sound. You noticed that I love- >> Right, I always love to hear a bass player mute, and so that's like a mute which is just not letting the string ring out. >> Yeah, and this is a, [MUSIC] Now I'm hearing four minor in my head. Did you just hear four minor? >> Yes, I did [LAUGH]. >> Yeah, Bonnie. >> Always on the same page. >> Yeah, so and, [MUSIC] But okay, four major to four minor, but the bass can go, [MUSIC] I did the same line, I guess we'd call that an ostinato, a repeated figure. Again, I'm looking at the table here, that's the bottom of the table. It's holding up the table, but anything could be put on top of the table, so I'm reinforcing it. >> Right, so you can play with a little bit with the stuff in between, like approach notes, and fills, and stuff like that. >> Yep, and there's something about, it's funny, I just was teaching a student and we were working with keyboard based on a Whitney Houston- >> Do you play keyboard bass too? >> Yeah. >> Cool. >> Yeah, and there are nuances created with that instrument. Whatever instrument you're playing, you can put out nuances. The length of the note, locking in with the drums, and not necessarily just the kick drum. >> Well, I already have a whole question about that, so let's go- >> Okay, we'll move that aside. >> Yeah, let's- >> But you mentioned rhythm, so I think there's a hook up with the rhythm of the song. And it just doesn't start with the drums, it can't, but I listened to the rhythm of the singer and how he or she is putting that out. >> Right. >> Because you could take a Norah Jones or Ray Charles, let's go back, someone who's singing behind the beat. I have to be the center of the beat. >> So that you can answer, so that not everybody is behind the beat. >> Right, so that the singer has whatever they want to do to it. I'll play the center. And now I look at it, this comes from an old Charles Ningas quote back from 1958, that there is a circle around the beat. >> [LAUGH] >> And there's a center, okay? >> Right. >> I could play pretty much in the center with the drummer, but anybody, the rhythm guitar, the keyboard player, and even the vocalist can play anywhere within the circle. And that could be behind the beat, that could be pushing the beat. And these create vibes like a Levon Helm drama. >> Absolutely. And then playing with a drummer who might be behind the beat or in front of the beat. So he might be dragging his snare and you might be- >> Centered- >> Pushing your- >> Pushing it to have the seesaw effect so it's balanced but everybody has to play within the circle. If the circle gets too amorphous. Now you have to recreate a new circle and then the song can, I think- >> And also how big is the circle. And different people have different sized circles, right? >> Yeah. >> So, some people really feel that slight drag as a problematic and other people love to have the push and pull. >> Yeah. >> So we're talking about just sort of really delicate matters of feel which we do talk about a little bit in our course. >> It's all nuance and I'm trying to get the intention of the writing- >> And you play really intentionally when- so you listen to the writer and this and the vocalist- >> And I try to get into that universe. >> Right. >> And then I try to play just from my heart to serve the song. >> Right, to honor- >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So let's go back and talk. So you talked about meeting, what are some other kind of tones, sounds that you can make on the bass? >> A big one from the pop world that you've come from and have been in, I think the string type makes a big difference. This bass happens to have roundwound strings. [SOUND] They're gritty. [MUSIC] >> Right. [SOUND] >> You can feel the metal but it's raining out there, I only have one bass with me- >> [LAUGH] >> And flatwounds provide this very lush, cushiony, soft. >> So do you associate it with genre I mean, would you say that- >> Could be. >> Roundwounds are more like a rock sound or- >> Yeah, but it's funny when Motown moved. It's a sad story, when Motown left Detroit and came to L.A., the wonderful bass player James Jamerson who created all of those great bass lines that we could hear ubiquitous around the world. In every coffee shop, you hear those great bass lines. They were created on flatwound strings. Then they moved to L.A. with the Commodores and other bands, they started getting more modern well into the 70s to the 80s, round a new tambour was hitting the airwaves. And as the story goes, Jamerson didn't want to change up his tambour, so his style fell out of fashion. Some styles- >> It will never go out of fashion- >> I know well, not now- >> [LAUGH] >> But, I think a song endures for however long it's meant to and classic Motown from Detroit is I think, I know it's here to stay. And that is graced with flatwound strings. >> Okay, well that's a real distinction. I mean, I wonder if students at home, should they have two basses? >> Sure if you can afford it. [LAUGH] But the other thing that people do is they put foam here. >> I see, they kind of need it to dampen a little bit. >> [MUSIC] So I'm trying to impersonate the sound of my flatline bass that's around five miles away. >> Right, so- >> But we can do it- >> The muting. >> Yeah, do the muting. We could put some foam here. Some people use a scrunchy or something there. Anything to dampen the [SOUND]- >> The metallic edge to the roundwounds. >> Yep, but I think it's a big vibe changer, so for your songwriters, once they get in tune to this nuance and how disparative it can be. They can say, well l want to have a flatwound bass, strong bass on this particular cut. l want to have a roundwound bass for this particular cut. >> It would be cool to be able to discern the difference maybe for a lot of people but- >> Yeah yeah. >> It really woke me up to it. Because l wasn't really aware of how clear- >> Yeah, simply put, there's bright [SOUND], metallic and then [SOUND] muted. >> More of a mute, muted sound. So, what about slapping? [LAUGH] It's a no? [LAUGH] >> I'm not a slapper but if we needed a little bit. Am I going to pop your speakers there? Okay. For a little- >> Plucking and- [SOUND] Right, so that's another [SOUND] sound that you can make. And it has a lot of associations to certain- >> Boz Scaggs, low down- >> Exactly- >> Something like that, and it's David Hungate. And it's not a busy, choppy part but without it, I don't think the song would sound the same. >> No, and it really stands out of the mix, so it really brought jaws a lot of attention- >> Right, so you heard the metallic? >> Right. [MUSIC] >> And I'm a big fan of brevity is a virtue, so if you don't play too many notes, they all sound different. >> Right [LAUGH]. >> So here is my- >> [LAUGH] >> Right, okay, so that's my moniker, so here's a low E as I said. [SOUND] Here's the next octave up. [SOUND] The next octave up [MUSIC] And I could go the octaves of the eight, nine eight. [MUSIC] To the flat seven, flat six. Let's write a song. [MUSIC] Aerosmith has some good ones like that. And they all sound different, they all create a nuance. But I don't do the crazy stuff, I never learned how to do it. You know why? Because I learned from hit songs. I never heard a hit [LAUGH] song with- >> That does this crazy, wanky, plucky, slappy stuff. >> Right, but a little bit, I was once at a clinic that Lee Sklar was leading in LA, who's a bass player everybody should check out because he's on so many records. >> And he's also such a unspoken and brilliant person. >> Yep, I think so- >> Just talk to. >> I agree, and the person interviewing him at this function said, you know what? This guy's played on so many records and he's never slapped a note. And I raised my hand, I said, I think you did in- >> [LAUGH] >> [MUSIC] >> James. [MUSIC] [LAUGH] >> I think there's one- >> I was perfect there. >> Yeah and that was it. >> Yeah one that one moment. >> One chord going to the six chord yeah. >> What about like double stops and stuff like that? >> They're beautiful. Yeah, so two notes on top of a chord. So, here. [MUSIC] So in E [MUSIC] That would be a nice-, here is the E minor chord. So sometimes a little tension release is good [MUSIC] Or a- >> [LAUGH] >> There are some famous ones you know, I forget what key it's in, but- [MUSIC] >> Walk on the Wild Side. >> Mm-hm. [MUSIC] [SOUND] >> Yeah, and there's a tense. [MUSIC] And that brings me to the signature bassline. >> Okay. >> So the signature bassline is something that we're trying to get songwriters to participate in which is sort of writing the part that as soon as people hear it, they can identify it, they can identify the song, right? So have you ever created signature basslines for songs that you were involved with? >> [LAUGH] Not one is coming to mind, which means no. >> Which means no. So it's more of a writer thing. >> I Yeah, I feel like I can interpret, but I've never had the situation yet where I've come up with that definitive line and the song became a hit, but I aspire to. >> I think you should write some baselines and I'll try to write songs for them. >> Thank you, Bonnie. >> [LAUGH] >> Okay, we'll attack it that way. All right, that's great. >> All right, so- >> On that note, though, you take a line like this, [MUSIC] So play that in any beach bar and people are going to start singing Stir it Up. There's a signature bass line that just has penetrated the airwaves and generations of people know it now. Isn't that something? And look at how simple it is in its construction, root, third, fourth, third, and now triads, [MUSIC] >> There's your triad. >> Triads. [MUSIC] Now, the verse of that song is this. [MUSIC] So, doh, reh, mi. >> Right. >> These are simple ideas that just work. I don't know that the bass necessarily needs to be so ornate. >> Right, so a signature bass part doesn't need to be fancy- >> No, no, >> But it needs to be identifiable. >> Yep, and it's simply sophisticated. >> Well, that part, the, [MUSIC] Goes to the four. It's on the one chord, so it's one, three, and then four, so we get this kind of wait, are we changing chords, or what's going on? >> That's right, it's creates a tension for a second. >> So it adds a melodic element to it that isn't just in the core. But also, it's rythmically kind of catchy. What are some other signature bass parts? I guess like- >> Well, how about this one? [MUSIC] >> Yeah. [MUSIC] And of course, on the chorus, [MUSIC] >> So that's like a paradigm of just playing the, and I like the way that you kind of, it's [SOUND], so that's an articulation. >> Yeah, it's an articulation. The note length is very unique to the player and the concept of the player. >> Well, and also to the rhythm, right? >> Yeah, the rhythm. >> I mean, so the off is as important as the on, yeah? >> Yeah, yeah, so that's huge. And also, I look to get ideas from what the rhythm guitar is playing, from what the keyboard is playing, and maybe what I want to set up with the drummer. I don't think the bass and drummer should be in a separate universe, you're an ensemble [CROSSTALK] >> Well, and they also need to relate to the main idea of the song. Let's talk about how you work with drummers. You ever worked with JR? >> No, but I've met him. I wish I could work with him. >> [LAUGH] >> Though. >> Okay, you got one on me. >> Yeah. >> And why are we speaking of these two names? >> because they are the guys. [LAUGH] >> Yeah, and my experience with working with John, it's a Buckley event that we did, five, six consecutive years, and I got to spend the weekend with them and rehearsing, and then doing the scholarship fundraising concert. From the time he walks into rehearsal, he's prepared. He's up, he's energetic, he's humorous. And then he sits down behind the kit. He's done his homework and his time doesn't waver, it's very strong. And to play with him feels effortless, and that's a beautiful quality. And then when I come back after that weekend with him, and I play with other drummers, I really notice a- >> Fluctuation? >> Yeah, gaps in people's musicianship, because John doesn't have any that I recognize, and that's why he was Quincy Jones's guy and- >> Yeah, he was Quincy's guy. >> Yeah, he and Omar Hakim, and these guys that are on so many records, and Jim Keltner, and the rock guys, Steve Ferrone, all these guys. >> They also have really clear ideas, I noticed. Those drummers tend to have sort of organized ideas. They're not changing their parts. >> No, that's something I noticed with less experienced drummers, they don't commit to a part. >> Right, they change the way the kick drum is happening. >> Yeah, and there's a hook happening down there on the kick. There's a hook happening in my bass part, both melodically and rhythmically, and note length and tambor-wise, they're all motifs. And I find with these, the way I learned how to play bass, from the records I noticed all that and I tried to grab on to that like a lexicon of the right way to play bass. >> Right, so do you have any tips in terms of somebody out there who's going to try to make a bass part that goes through the drum part. Is there anything that they should think about? >> Immerse yourself in music that maybe has the vibe of the song you're trying to create. >> Nice. >> And take it apart, and then maybe suggest that, and you could be as transparent as you want to the players that you're going to have. You might let them go for it naturally, organically, and then say have you ever heard Bonnie Hayes' whatever, Have A Heart? I want that kind of vibe. >> Right. >> Something like that. So you're making a suggestion, but- >> Yeah, so- >> And that doesn't bruise any egos that way either. >> [LAUGH] >> You're saying here's a sound print, here's a vibe print. >> Yeah, let's use this to kind of guide the choices that we're making. >> Yeah. >> Well, what would you say to somebody who's trying to kind of write bass parts? I mean, what are the main things that you want to look out for in terms of kind of creating parts that aren't going to do that thing that we were talking about getting in the way or kind of disrupting the vibe? I don't know how else to say it, just fitting their groove. >> Yeah, well, I mean you mentioned it before, but the bass defines the harmony. So we define the root of the chord. But the root isn't the only note to pick. I'm thinking of your song- >> Have a Heart, yeah. >> Have a Heart, it starts with a third in the bass. [MUSIC] And that's a, [MUSIC] >> Yeah, then, [MUSIC] >> Then you go to the root. [MUSIC] >> It goes, yeah [CROSSTALK] >> Or something, I'm not- >> Hold, not until the chorus. The whole idea there was to not go to the one cord with the root in the bass until we got somewhere where I wanted people to feel resolved. >> Stable, okay, right. >> Yeah, so I was trying to create the instability of the verse with that third in the bass, yeah. >> Right, pardon me for telling you about the way you wrote the song. >> No, no, no, but- >> But I love that song. >> You could choose to put the third in the bass. >> But I love how you wait, so you build this tension. And if you listen to Baroque music, it's this figured bass all over the place. And that means there's thirds in the base of the chords, there's fifths, there's flatted sevenths, and that all tells a melody on the bottom. I think of also piano players, the biggies, like an Elton John or Billy Joel. They have a lot of that on the bottom, and the bass doubles it, puts the third on the chord. And then you have your, I don't know where you're at in your course in terms of describing non-diatonic harmony, but the chords like the flat six major, in your hit song you used it. >> [LAUGH] I used all the tricks in that song. >> It's great because it's kind of out of the key, but it feels great because there are some notes that are in the key. >> Right, well, the one is in common to everything, so. >> Right, so- >> Oldest trick in the book [LAUGH]. >> It's a good one, but for people to Do you have to be advanced in harmony to do all this stuff? I don't know, not necessarily. I mean if you immerse yourself in music, maybe you'll know how to play, you'll experiment play these ideas but you don't know the functionality of it. And that's completely cool. >> You can just do it by ear and following it around. But you could also just say, okay, so like whenever the chord changes, I want to be on the route, right? For now. >> That's a good way to start. >> Until I really understand- >> That's a great place to start. >> Right. >> Yeap, and then be aware of the downbeat. >> Right. >> Actually, I was hanging out with Chuck Rainey, who's a great bass player to listen to for people taking your course because he's recorded on so much stuff. The Aretha Franklin, in particular, some of my favorite. And Chuck told me, he said, tell your students when you're, where's one? One, the rhythm, the beat one, and if and if you're not there, how you going to get there. >> Right. >> And what he's saying is, two and three and four and one and one. Now, you could ricochet off it and it's going to land beautifully. And then harmonically [MUSIC] You know, how are you going to get back to that one. >> Right. >> So, both rhythmically and harmonically, that's your thing to study. >> Right. >> And he said he's always been intrigued by that and he's one of my guys. I learned a lot from taking his parts off records. And you know, he's a beautiful guy and he told me, he said, Danny, I have had so much help in creating those basslines. People gave me ideas, people pat me on the back on a Steely Dan session. No, yeah, that last take, that had something, use that. >> [LAUGH] >> So there's a lot of working together. >> To sort of mine out- >> Like a team. >> The great hook or the great idea. >> Yes. >> Of all the stuff that kind of flows out of you. >> Yeah. >> So that's like really what a producer does actually. >> Yep, yep. >> The bass player's just kind of finding the way to kind of outline it the way that they hear. >> Yep, but it's a great idea to learn your chords, your basic triads on the bass. That's wonderful because- >> And to understand harmony. I mean, it definitely helps if you're going to be thinking about putting thirds or fifths in the bass or paddling or anything like that. >> Yep, and, and so here's a root, here's a third, but here's the third on the bottom, and here's a fifth on the bottom. Blackbirds singing in the dead of night. I mean, you could do all these cool things, you know? >> Yeah. >> On a bass. >> You could do a lot on a bass if you know what- >> Know what you're doing. [LAUGH] >> Yeah, and if you don't, you can still do a lot but it won't sound good. >> This is fun stuff to talk about. >> Yeah. >> And I love talking about it with you. Because to talk about it with other bass players exclusively, I think it's just too myopic of a discussion. I like this because you're coming from being a songwriter, keyboard player, you play lots of instruments, singer. I want to know what you're expecting, and I want to share with you some ideas, and it's a collaboration. >> I think it's much more fun to talk to people than it is to talk to yourself. [LAUGH] >> There you go. That's tantamount to talking with other bass players. Yeah, you're right. >> So, what's your favorite bass part to play? >> The one that I'm playing. >> Whatever one you're doing? >> Yeah, yeah, I really believe that. >> So you just enjoy every bass part you're playing? >> Yeah, I mean, I go home from work, from teaching here, and if my wife is out I just start playing, unless I'm in the middle of a good book. But I mean, I just start playing again. I'm just so into it. I'll whip up a drum track, and I'll just start creating stuff. >> So you do write bass parts? >> Well, I jam. I have an Instagram account and it's- >> You post stuff on there? >> I do, I post a couple times a week of just jams and I- >> I'm going to go check that out. >> Yeah, I meet students that way.
