Hi everyone, and welcome to this art hang, art and inquiry themed art hangs with mobile learning events. It is March 18th, 2014, and we're broadcasting live from the department of education at the Museum of Modern Art in New York City. My name is Stephanie Pau. And I'm an educator specializing in interpretation and research here at MoMA. In a few months I also hope to get to know some of you a little better as a co-instructor of MoMA's second massive open online course titled Art and Activity Interactive Strategies for Engaging with Art. It kicks off July 7, 7th on Coursera. And there's still plenty of time to enroll. I'm very happy to introduce my colleague, Lisa Mazzola, Assistant Director of School and Teacher Programs here at MoMA. Many of you also know her as the instructor of MoMA's ongoing MOOC course, Art and Inquiry: Museum Strategies For Your Classroom. And we're also extremely excited to welcome our very special guest, educator and author Laurel Schmidt. We've conceived of this hangout as a virtual open house event and encourage you to participate by using the Q&A feature on the right-hand side of this viewing window. Submit your questions to Lisa and Laurel, or vote on questions submitted by others. The most upvoted questions will rise to the top, and have a better chance of being answered by Lisa and Laurel during this one-hour event. So without further ado, I'm going to turn it over to Lisa, who has a few words of welcome. And in the meantime, please feel free to start submitting your questions and voting on your favorites, right, Lisa. >> Great. Thanks, Stephanie. Welcome everyone. It's so exciting to have this opportunity to connect with you all in real time. I very much enjoyed watching your progress and participating in discussions in Art and Inquiry. There are so many inspiring and insightful conversations happening there, and I'm really looking forward to see what's coming as we move forward into week four and we get closer to your final projects. Please make note that after the course ends the, the content will actually be open so you'll have plenty of time to keep delving in there and discovering new things. So it, it's my great pleasure to introduce Laurel Schmidt. I first met Laurel in 2006 as part of our connecting collect, connections, sorry, Connecting Collections program. It's a summer institute for teachers that MoMA cosponsors with the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Guggenheim and the Whitney Museum of Art. And Laurel is our regular presenter each year, who comes and inspires our teachers with her incredible insights on the topic of inquiry. Laurel has had the great fortune to have a father who was passionate about learning and art, and he seemed to have passed those genes onto her. She describes him as her first best teacher. Laurel earned her B.A. in Art and a Master's of Arts in Art History. She also holds extensive teaching creden, credentials. Laurel has enjoyed a long and satisfying career combining art, education, and writing. She's taught K through eight. She's created a small high school with an alt, alternative curriculum for at risk students. She's taught education courses in numerous colleges and universities and she was even a principal. She's the author of five books. One of which you've already sampled in Art and Inquiry classroom confidential. She also wrote Social Studies that Sticks and Seven Times Smarter which both deal with multiple intelligence theory. And may also both emphasize inquiry-based hands-on learning. She's done professional development with thousands of teachers nationwide and also in Canada. And Laurel has been working at art museums in Los Angeles, New York training teachers and museum dozens of techniques that incorporate inquiry and multiple intelligence theories. So once again we're so happy she's here and welcome Laurel to our Art Hang. >> Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. This is just great. >> We're lucky to have you. >> Well, it's, I'm so happy, first of all. I've had a wonderful relationship with Museum of Modern Art. And every summer being able to be there and talk to teachers and work with Lisa, and just to see the progress that people are making in terms of incorporating art into their lives and into their classrooms, and I care deeply, deeply about that. And then also just thrilled to be able to talk to teachers, because that's how I spent so much of my career, in a classroom, happily, happily in a classroom and so anytime I can connect with my colleagues and encourage you in your very, very important work, it's a great honor to me to have the opportunity. So as we go along, we have an hour. As we go along, hopefully we can weave lots of information in there. And answer your questions. Elaborate, maybe points you in the direction of some resources or give you a little more courage or energy or whatever it is you need to to get that very important job done. Some of you aren't teachers. You're curious. And you're curious about Art and Inquiry. And you're in the model of my dad. He, I told you he was my teacher. But he really was just this wonderful, wonderful person who was always asking questions about how does this world work. And happily, he modeled that for us, and in doing so, we were able to learn a lot about art, and architecture, and science, and whatever he had on his mind, we had it on our mind, eventually. So it was a great fortune. So I'm just happy. I'm so happy to be able to talk to you. Because, you know, when you write something as an author you just sit alone in your room. And you have no idea who's going to read it. If anybody will read it and what impact it'll have. So to be able to connect up with you and really answer your questions directly, it's just a great, great pleasure. So let's just get started, and so, let's do it. >> Sounds good. >> All right. So our first question is by Susanne Johanson. I was told by a teacher that inquiry-based teaching is very time-consuming. Does it have to be? If so, how can we manage it in a tight schedule? >> That's a great question. Oh my God, that is a great question. And it, that is one of the big hurdles that comes up, and people talk about it a lot. This is going to take a whole lot of time. And I know that you are under the gun, if you're in a classroom. That a lot of teachers are actually on schedules that are absolutely brutal, in terms of marching their kids through the curriculum. And inquiry takes time, yes. So I'm going to go ahead and give you two answers and the one is the pragmatic one which says, it takes time. Therefore, if you are going to begin to do inquiry, start small. Insert inquiry questions and an inquiry approach into a little bit of your curricular, curricular day. Don't try to do an entire day of, of inquiry. Start small. Work through it, get comfortable, and see how it works with your kids. That's the one point. But the second point, which I think is so much more compelling, is this. It does take a little more time to ask a good question, and to listen to your kids. And to really find out what they're thinking, and then respond to their thinking. But on the other hand, what we know about the brain and learning is that this is absolutely the critical way that learning happens. That inquiry is the gateway, really, to the brain, and to learning. And so if we present kids with a kind of educational ritual. It doesn't create learning. We take a little more time to do inquiry, which we know is a very powerful tool for learning. That's the question we have to face. And it is really a question of the bureaucracy versus what a teacher knows is best for his or her kids. So we'll talk more about that in this hour but know that the, the amount, the extra amount of time that inquiry takes also produces much greater gains in terms of actual learning, both the thinking itself, new knowledge and retention. So, the long run, the long, in the long run, you gain time, because your kids actually learn. >> That's great. Lisa, did you have anything you wanted to add to that? >> No, no, it's just that, that's just great for me to hear. You know, I've heard Laurel talk about this live before but it was, I, I just was noting some things here. And I think it is really important that idea of in the long run, the long run gains of this process. And that it's not an, an overnight process. But as you build and develop this culture things change dramatically. >> Okay, the next question with five votes is from Carlos Eduardo Serrano Vasquez. And his question is, how do you think a process of training for museums' guides should be? How do you think one can encourage the necessary skills for inquiry education? It's kind of a big question, [LAUGH] yeah. >> Well Laurel do you want to talk at all? >> Yeah. >> I mean you and I, you know, you do a lot of work with these things too. >> I do. I do. >> Why don't you start by. >> All right, I will how do you think of foster training it, well, okay, I do work with docents at a lot of museums and museum staff, and what, what many of them are faced with is that they have been trained in a sort of what we call stand-and-deliver mode, where they gather up a group of people and they herd them around the museum. And they stop at various points and the docent talks, and the people who are with the docent do various and sundry things. They, you know, they listen, they wander off, they wonder when it's going to be over. They wonder why the museum bought that piece of art. They do all kinds of things that don't have, necessarily, to do with the art itself. And it can be very unsatisfying for the people who are visiting the museum. Because they miss out on this amazing art experience. And it can be unsatisfying for the docent because they know they're staring at a group of people who are staring back at them. And that's not very satisfying because you don't get any feedback. So I, when I talk to docents we talk about what, what makes a compelling experience for you? Why are you here? Why are you volunteering or working in a museum to begin with? And then what was it that caused you to be there? And when people answer they say oh I, I it's, it's creative. It, it's expressive. All their engagement with art is about real interactive things. Once I talked to the docents about that, they realize, oh, maybe when I'm touring people, when I'm working with people, we, we should be more interactive. And that's where inquiry comes in. So then I talk to them about the idea of how do you develop open-ended questions that help people feel safe enough, to talk about the art and help them realize that they have intrinsic knowledge about art, and they have emotions and they have ideas that are absolutely relevant to their looking at art and to that conversation. And the open-ended questions allow people to get safe enough to start talking. And once they do you're in as a docent. You're inside. But, Lisa, what do you think? >> Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. And I think it's a great question. And, you know, I think for us here, like, for example, at MoMA, you know, we actually have staff who work in specifically adult programs. I'm specifically in school and teacher. But we all actually throughout the department, even in other program areas, really embrace this inquiry-based participatory, interactive strategies. And I think that as part of that what we're always doing is developing you know, experiences, modelling sessions where we can actually do exactly what you're saying Lauren. Like, what you were really hitting on is this idea of tapping into people's personal experiences and also the fact that objects have stories and kind of inviting people in to connect with the objects. And I think that's something that's really important. And if you are perhaps, if I know, Carlos, you know, if you are at a, a museum and if you are at one that maybe is more sort of similar to what Laurel, what you described, you know, that has a, maybe more traditional approach. I think that it is key to really building some sort of experience where they can actually themselves have that experience of connecting with objects, and going through exactly those techniques, just modeling for them, and having them see and practice their own experience and have them reflect on that. And then once they realize how much it works for themselves, kind of then using some of the strategies and modeling more of the strategies for how that they could, they can do that for visitors. [CROSSTALK] yeah, go ahead. >> I was just thinking when I talked to docents, a lot of times they'll tell us, they'll tell me what they're scared of, why they don't want to use the inquiry in the museum. And, and they get, they get pretty confessional, and it's great, and a lot of times, what it is is, they're scared. They're scared that they won't know what to say that, or somebody will say something bizarre to them and then they'll be like, oh my gosh, what do I do now? And, and, again, with the docents I recommend the same thing that I do with teachers, is you take a little bit, you start simple, you open up, you have a couple of good open-ended questions, so that everybody relaxes, everybody says, okay, I can do this. But also that, that when you're using inquiry in the gallery, just as when you're using it in classroom, that doesn't mean you used inquiry all the time. There are times when you, the docent or you, the teacher will be talking. You're the expert. You have expert knowledge to share. So, it becomes a give-and-take where you ask open-ended questions. The people in your group respond. Then you add information that they can't possibly intuit or figure out. And then the conversation starts up again. So it's a very, it's a give-and-take thing. And it's, you, you just take baby steps, and get started. >> Mm-hm. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. And that's really important. [INAUDIBLE] Yup. >> So this is actually a really good lead in to the next question from Amika Prosuto. Do you think that inquiry can also lead to a classroom routine if children become used to the discussion format? Can you suggest ways to incorporate inquiry into games and other entertaining classroom activities for young learners and then in parentheses? >> Huh. >> Es, ESL kids, six to 12 years old. >> Oh, okay. This is Amika? >> Mm-hm. >> Yes, yes, yes. I actually worked with ESL children. My very first school where I taught had, the kids spoke 24 different languages. So [LAUGH] you, you name it, we had that language there. And every, but, so everybody's job was to help kids be able to express themselves. And we used a lot of art, a lot of art in the programs. We actually had a program called, Reading, Writing, and Rembrandt, because we decided if we used art as the center of the curriculum, kids would learn to speak English, talk to each other, and learn to read and write. So, do we think inquiry can become a classroom routine? Absolutely. Because what it is, you already have, this is the thing, teachers, it's important to think about. You already have a classroom routine that's not inquiry routine, you may not, but in many classrooms, the culture of the classroom is that, teacher talks, asks a question. The question has a right answer. Some kid gives the teacher the right answer, and then the teacher asks another question and talks for awhile. So, you have that routine there. And, because of it, kids are very conditioned to not, not thinking, really. They're just busy deciding if they have the right answer. And they'll give it to you. Or, they don't have the right answer and they'll be quiet. Because they don't want to humiliate themselves and look like an idiot. So, but if in your classroom, you begin to use open-ended questions, what kids learn after a while is oh, this classroom is about thinking. This classroom isn't about right answers anymore. It's about thinking and and therefore they, their mind opens up, and they begin to contribute more. They begin to prospect more for what are the other possibilities, and so when you sug, talk about incorporating inquiry into games and other entertaining classroom activities, you certainly can start. Inquiry itself is entertaining. I will tell you that. When kids are involved in an inquiry environment where they actually get to do the thinking and the talking, they love it. They love it, they won't shut up. Eventually, you have to tell them look, see the door, you have to go to recess now [LAUGH] because of the teacher, I have to go to the bathroom. But, because this is why inquiry is so entertaining and engrossing, that's what your brain loves to do. The brain is basically a question answering device. It's a seeking device. And, what the brain thrives on is novelty and challenge. Everybody's brain, it's wired that way. And, and so when a kid is presented with information, the brain has very few options. When a kid is presented with an open-ended question, their brain goes in all kinds of directions. And suddenly, they are very busy. And, you think about that. That's a really good thing. That kids come to school and they're actually exhausting themselves thinking. That's a wonderful thing. So, yes, inquiry can be used in lots and lots of things across the curriculum. Not just for entertainment, but, for curriculum. And in fact at the risk of alluding to my book, which I don't want to do much but I'm telling you, that book, Classroom Confidential, that you read one chapter of. There are lots of other chapters that talk about how you can use inquiry all through the curriculum. And again, it's a kind of thing where, once kids get hooked into it, they realize, this is the real stuff, this is what my brain was designed to do. And they love school, and they love being with you because you provide such a stimulating environment for them. >> Mm-hm. And actually, Stephanie did you, could you, do you want to talk a little bit about the games that you worked on here? >> Cool. >> Sure, well as, actually as Laurel was talking too, I, I thought about I wish I had the attribution. But, I read a quote just the other day about how often times kids enter the classroom as questions and they leave as periods. And. >> Hm. >> I thought that was, I was thinking about how this is completely the opposite of that. >> Mm-hm. >> Where you're talking about cultivating this culture of thinking and you're right. You're absolutely right how fun it is and how you can get in to the zone when there isn't just one answer. You know? >> Mm-hm. >> When, when you're kind of putting these kids in a situation where you're, kind of, building one, one interpretation on top of the other. But I mean I guess as far as the games that we produce MoMA has been experimenting a lot with game-based learning. We're hoping to do a lot more in the future. Right now we're, we have you know, we're trying to rethink some of the family guides and things that, in the past, were based more on providing content. And, now we're trying to create more experiences. So, games are one way to kind of get people to look, you know, of all ages, to look a little differently at the collection and think about the museum as a place for play. And not just a place to, kind of, intake information. >> Mm-hm. >> So. I wanted to now move onto the next question because we have a bunch. Do you guys, did you guys want to add anything more? Or can I move on to the [CROSSTALK]. >> Yeah, that's okay. Move on. >> Okay, so. This one has a bunch of votes. This one is from Marzena. What are your favorite tools or strategies for enhancing creative thinking and abilities when you work with children or students or adults? >> [INAUDIBLE] That's a good question. How about, I can start and then Laurel you can, you can chime in. >> Great. >> You know, you guys have seen some of my favorite strategies already in the course. And through some of the videos that we've produced about the way that we teach. And, you know, it's funny. I don't have, I have a lot of different things that I kind of look at as strategies and maybe not so much actual, you know, tools as in physical things. Although I do have things like viewfinders, and you've seen me work with some of that, some of that in the course. But, I think that the most important thing that we have is, actually, the students or the adults themselves. I mean, I think for myself, what I love about what I get to do, is that I get to talk about these works of art and, and content around these works of art, that, and see it through new eyes, all the time. And so, a tool that I think is part of the inquiry process, that you wouldn't normally think of right off the bat, is the questions and the experience that the viewer and the people in front of these objects bring. Because it's, without that and through the use of just, you know, these open-ended questions, where people feel comfortable to sharing, to share their thoughts and perspectives. Suddenly, your pool of tools is actually much greater than it was when you're thinking about it in your own mind in isolation about students or, or, of all ages, or any ages in front of you. So I'm always looking to what they bring. And, and, and thinking about that, but I also, you know, in terms of things I like to do as you've heard a little bit already, I love conversation is wonderful. But I love drawing, I love movement, I love writing, I love bringing in any kind of multisensory experience. So anything that encourages people to you know, look at something closely. And to kind of ga, engage with me, but also engage with each other is something that I like to do. Lately I've been playing a little bit more with some different kinds of movement exercises. And actually as, as Stephanie talked about in the beginning, we have the next MOOC coming up in July which is just about specific activities that you can do. So for me, it's really just, you know, what, what the audience brings and then kind of just using that as great space to, kind of, spark ideas I have about the strategies that I've been using over the years. And, kind of in the moment, you know, sort of being flex, flexible enough to kind of tweak. >> Mm-hm. Laurel did you have anything to add to that? >> Eh, you know, I think that Lisa's absolutely right. It's the questions that stimulate the creative thinking. Giving people an open-ended question that is meaty and has lots of possibilities, and, you know, it's, it's, an open-ended question, when you have words embedded like would or should or could or possible or think, those kinds of things. And so when you present something to a kid, for example, I just, if you show an object to a bunch of kids, and you say, what isn't this might be used for? Might, okay, the word might. What is, is, what would you, if you found this what would you think this is? What might this be, okay, it happens to be a weird object that you put hot water in and you put it in your bed and it will heat your feet. But the truth is when you present, open them to things, you'd be amazed the things that kids say. And the same thing is true in curriculum. When you say to them, like, what would be the most difficult thing about being on a Columbus voyage? Or, what would be another way that you could express, you know, this landscape, or capture this landscape? All those things, when you signal their brain, hey, there's a lot going on here. There are a lot of possibilities here. What happens is creative thinking. And so, rather than saying how do we focus on creative thinking, what you focus on is, what kind of questions can I ask that will stimulate people to expand their minds and to really root around and see what kind of interesting stuff is there. It's the thinking, it's the thinking, and what people say, and it is true, what Lisa said. I used to teach with art in classrooms to help kids learn English, and we, I would look at a painting 40 times, and then some kid would say, hey, look there, look what I see. I think that looks like this. And I never saw it, other kids didn't see it. And so the painting just opened up for all of us. Again, because that kid was allowed to have, had permission really, to see, see what's going on here. >> Mm-hm. >> So, it's the questions. It's the questions. >> Hm. >> Okay. Okay, and speaking of questions, our next one comes from Cor, Coral. [LAUGH] Okay I'm sorry. I, I'm not even going to try because I'm just going to destroy your name. But this is most of the examples we saw and read about in this course are figurative. Can you give us examples of how to use inquiry teaching with abstract art? That's a great question. >> That is a great question. Do you want to start this one, Laurel? [CROSSTALK]. >> No, you go ahead. >> Okay. So that is a really great question. And it's one that we get all the time. And the first thing that I want to say is that it is, it's, it's not really different. And we would say that the approach is different. I would also just say that you shouldn't, you know, whether it's abstract or sometimes more contemporary conceptual works people find are very challenging. But try not to be too you know, uncomfortable with that. I think I know for myself when I started teaching with MoMA's collection from coming from another institution, I think it was my own, kind of uncomfortable feeling about the works myself that kind of made me think, oh, I couldn't possible teach with that. So, I would say that the crafting of the questions, and the process of crafting questions is actually the same. And I would also say that you know, some of the richest experiences I've had have been with more abstract works of art. But I do think that it's important that you, in whatever it is that you're doing, that you make sure that the conversation, right, is, is, is open enough to allow anybody to kind of, you, you know, contribute. And and again, that's where it's very similar to what we've already said, right, that the process will be the same. It's just again, inviting people in to see. Now it may be something that doesn't have you know, a lot like tons and tons of visual narrative elements, but often if you look at a work-of-art, like, you know, a more abstract work-of-art, there are all sorts of things about process, like for example let's just say a Jackson Pollock drip painting, right? That's not a narrative work-of-art but it is such an incredibly visually complex work of art. So there's tons of things to see. They just might not be, you know, too clear, people walking down the path or, you know, as an example of it as a narrative. So don't don't, don't, don't disregard the visual complexity of the objects that aren't as narrative and I also say again, just try to be as comfortable as you can with those works and sometimes those works might have more questions hanging in the air about the artist's intents, but the truth, that could also be true for works that are, that are more figurative. We could, you know, look at works-of-art that you think you totally understand and then find out that the art has had a whole other intention. So and just one little note about actual resources, we've given you in the art and inquiry course, the link to mobile learning, it's right on that left navigation bar. And if you actually go into mobile learning, we do have many abstract works-of-art that are included on the site that you can actually, we have actual you know, downloadable slide show notes of conver, you know, that talk about conversations you could have with those works. So if you feel like you need a, a much more concrete example of, of work and some questions you could, you could also go there and there's, there's references there for you as well. >> And I just wanted to add that that abstract, wi- with abstract works of art first of all, children take to them very well. A lot of times, as adults we may have some hesitation, but many, I've found that many, many students take to the idea of looking at it because there's actually more freedom to interpret. And the, an, an abstract piece of artwork. And also, and this is a very interesting thing, that abstract art can be very emotional. And what people find is as they look at it, it's not about a story, but they are reacting emotionally. They may say that something feels very ponderous, or it feels heavy, or it feels joyful. And again, when you tap into emotions that's a very powerful connector for people to you and to the art. So and another, another reason, I think, why a lot of people are reluctant to talk about abstract art is they think there's a right answer. They're supposed to know. What is this about? You know, what did he mean? What is this stuff? Is it useful? Is it, is it beautiful? Is it valuable? And when you, when you move away from that with questions to say, what do you see? What does it feel like? What would it feel like to be inside of that painting? Then all of a sudden people get, oh, painting speak, paintings are forms of communication. They don't just tell stories but they tap into a whole lot of other things that I actually have felt as a human being and here this artist has captured it on a canvas. So they quickly discover, I think, that there's a great deal of potential for them to have a sort of an innate understanding of abstract art. >> Great, 'kay, our next question is from Andreas Kilanos, how should we handle the possible misinterpretations children might do, or children might have? Hm. Well, okay, I'll take a shot at that. >> Yep. >> I assume, when you say misinterpretations, because I'm not sure, but the, a child might be looking at art and saying, this is about something, versus something else. And I think this thing, misinterpretation means that there is a correct interpretation, so we have to look at first of all, what question are you asking? What expectations do you have of your conversation? If you're saying the child misinterpreted, the other thing is sometimes I've had the experience that kids say very, very interesting things, but at first it's not clear what they're talking about. They might be very oblique thinkers, they might be really, really bright. And the first iteration isn't clear and you can think, wow, where did that come from? And sometimes people talk about that kids say things that are coming out of left field, and the best thing that I've found to do with something like that is not to say ooh, no, that's not what that's about. But to lean in, and to lean in means simply be curious about what is that child really saying? So lean in would be to just say to the child, that's very interesting. Can you tell me more about that? Because in the in, first of all you don't judge them, which would make them stop talking and stop thinking. But the other thing is, as they elaborate, you get more clues about what they're really talking about. And a lot of times what they're talking about is something that is very valid. So, Lisa, shaking her head, what else? >> Yeah, no, I think that's, I, I, I think that's very true, and yeah, and I, you know, it's, it's interesting because, you know, I never thought of it, well, until the way you just, phrased it, Laurel, that about this idea of misinterpretation. And are we assuming that there, there's one that there's one interpretation. So I think that again it's, it's kind of along the lines I think when you're speaking about. And I know I felt this when I first started working at the museum. This idea of being right, and having knowledge and, and do you understand, and all of that. I think that the other piece of that is that if you, if, if, if you're having a conversation I, I do think that if the conversation is kind of centered around the spinning around one idea that a student has put out, that you know for a fact is not true, say? Like, say you know a piece of information that explains or highlights or, or sheds light on something you're talking about. I think that's when the world of information comes in. And then you can say, oh, well actually, you know, you're saying that you think that's a cow. But we know that actually the artist, you know, was depicting a goat, that kind of thing. And I think that comes up, you know, a lot. So I think in some cases, and it's something like that, that you feel like they're chewing away and chewing away at something that's not right, it's not that you ignore that. I think that you can give the guidance and insert the information when you need it. >> Right. >> But I also think as Laurel said there is this really interesting space that opens up when you lean in, as she said. And really kind of delve further as to why a student is responding to something in a certain way. And some really interesting openings happen. So I guess again I would also say that is, definitely feel comfortable there. And I, and I'm going to think about that more in, in my own practice. I'm really, like, loving that, that idea of leaning in, and it's, it's, interesting things happen, so, don't, don't be afraid to do that. >> Okay. I actually wanted to address a question that came in via Twitter from Jane Adams Watts. Is the term great artist, usage no longer helpful? >> Is the term great artist, hm. Yeah, I'm not, yeah, I'm not, I mean, how do you interpret that, Laurel? I mean I, I don't know, I don't know that I used that, that term, really. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's, I don't really identify-. >> That might be, that might be your answer right there. [LAUGH]. >> Yeah, I don't really-. >> Yeah. >> I don't even-. >> I know that-. >> Okay. >> I know that for myself, Jane Adams Watts, I do interpretation and research here, and so that's, that's less of the in-gallery teaching and more working on interpretive resources, and one thing that we actually use as a guideline for ourself, for ourselves. When we're reviewing interpretive texts, or doing an audio tour, is we try not to, we try to avoid superlatives. >> Mm-hm. >> We try the avoid the the idea of one artist is better than another artist, or that one type of art is more valuable than another. So I think you know, the, the, it's just a, I don't know if it's exactly a usage that's no longer helpful. But for us we don't really try to apply value to certain artists over others, or certain practices or mediums over others. >> Mm-hm. >> And, so, let's move onto the next question. We actually have one from Farha Asam. How could I integrate works of art as part of science lessons? >> Oh, I'll take. >> Yeah. >> I'll take a shot at that. >> Mm-hm. >> Yes from I mean, from just a realistic images point of view. There are so, so many artists who have made amazing, beautiful paintings of the natural world, of, of objects. You know, of fish and, and leaves. And the natural world has fascinated artists for a long, long time. And so there are massive, massive amounts of beautiful, beautiful art that is like an illustration of nature, and so, you, you certainly can use it that way. I also think though, it depends on what level you're teaching obviously, but some abstract paintings I think look, they have notions of science, they have notions of movement and molecules and atoms, and implosion and explosions, and notions of physics. But they're kind of as, as paintings. And so what I would say is to look at your topic, this is what I, this is the way I work. Look at whatever topic you're talking about. Google that topic. And then etching, painting, sculpture, and just see what comes up. And, and, so the idea, and this is a really wonderful thing to do, is to bring art into a science class, which goes back to the whole idea of the brain. The brain loves novelty. And the difference between a kid coming into a science class and having a teacher say, oh, okay, open up to chapter 15. Or, a child coming into a science class and there's a paining. There's a painting there, or there's a sculpture there. And then there's a discussion and inquiry based discussion about how, what does it, you know, what does this remind you of? How is this like molecular motion? Those kinds of things. The kids' brains will be absolutely on fire, with that kind of stimulation. Because there's a whole part of the brain that does nothing but respond to novelty. And the minute it sees something new, it lights up, and then that means the brain is activated. So I think to the degree you can bring science in besides all the scientific basis of work that artists are doing. Please, please do. >> Mm-hm, mm-hm. Yeah, I think that's great, and you know, the only thing I would add to what you said Laurel is that, and this is very like specific to content. Is that obviously there are you know, so many ways just from even like the physical making of objects that you could talk about science, as well as artists, who use science as a topic in their work. But the other thing that you can do is think about, like here at MOMA we have a really interesting design collection, and we have all these different objects that incorporate design and science, and like for example right now there's something on rapid prototyping and manufacturing, and so there's all these other kinds of ways that you can apply content. So I like, you know, Laurel's giving you the kind of the ideas about how that can be worked out from the thinking trains and thinking patterns. And then there's even very specific content that folds in so nicely with, with science, and I think actually in Art and Inquiry there's a few threads going in the discussion forum. You can actually use through search terms, through the discussion forum and search for science. And you'll see the thread in there where people are talking about that. So you should do it. I'm going to jump in for Stephanie because I think she might be having some tech problems. And I'm going to jump on a question here. >> Oh, I'm still here. >> Oh, you're here. Okay, good, I can see you. Okay, it looked like, yeah, go ahead. >> So let's see. I'm going to pick geo, from geolimp. How can you avoid getting the audience quote unquote, uncomfortable? Analyzing works of art that criticize religion or specific regimes. Might there be any dangers when approaching, for example, political art with high school students? Huh. >> It's a really good question. >> Yeah. >> Wow I love that. >> We use that and then. >> You know. >> Yeah, go ahead Laurel. >> The word danger is very interesting. Because, and associated with politics, religion,. And I think one of the unfortunate things that's happened in education is people are afraid, have become afraid to discuss controversial topics for fear of being criticized, casting aspersions on someone, being controversial, etc, etc. All right. But, if you are approaching topics like you were referring to, a poster political things, political poster, political art. Political art is a fabulous, fabulous tool for thinking. So when you are leading kids through, through inquiry using political art what you're help, what you're helping them do is analyze the thinking of someone else. That's what political art is, it's someone's statement done in images. And so rather than approaching it from. Is this a good idea? Is it a bad idea? Are these people lunatics? Should they be locked up? If you are doing, it, the approach is, what is the message these people are trying to get across? By looking at the images, then let's analyze that image. Is the, and let's analyze that message. Are there any fallacies in that message? Are they any facts that you know that counter what you're seeing there? Can you think of another way they could have promoted this message. Do you think that the imagery is seductive and therefore they use that to get their message? So there's all kinds as higher level thinking. In the chapter that you read I talk about the different kinds of thinking that you want to emphasize and are [INAUDIBLE] today with your kids. Political art is fabulous for that and the same thing when you're talking about regimes and religions, you're not going at it asking questions about, is it right or is it wrong. What you're looking, you ask open ended questions, which are. What might we learn about these people by looking at their art? Their religious art? What might we learn about their culture? How is it like other religious, religions. How is it like other cultures? It's a wonderful, wonderful thing to do. And it is an amazing opportunity to promote the idea of inclusion and acceptance and curiosity about the other, rather than that other people are dangerous. So I say, think, you have to analyze your questions very, very well. Be very clear and some times the hardest part of inquiry, the, the most time consuming part is coming up with good questions that you could ask. But once you do that, what you're teaching your kids to do is to look at their world with a critical eye. But with an openness to what are the possibilities out here. And that's a skill that our world could really use. So be brave and be thoughtful. >> Yeah. I totally agree. I think it's a, you know, we use the subject or theme here that we often use is, society and politics. And I think that, high school students really welcome those kind of conversations, you know. And it's, so much is impacting young people, that yes, there's things that we might talk about that could, you know, deal with things that could be, you know. You know topics that seem like things that you might be afraid to talk about. But they're seeing so much and getting so much that already that to have that space to actually have the open conversation. And really think critically about those really important big issues. I mean it's, it's amazing things can happen. So, so don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to have those conversations. >> Okay. Alright, this one is, the next one is, I feel like we may have covered a little bit of this, but, Betty Campusano is asking what do we do in an inquiry based class when kids start asking questions instead of answering. Well, I say if you have raised your kids to the level where they're starting to ask questions, bravo. Bravo for you. When kids ask questions, so if you're in an inquiry based class and kids start posing their own questions. What I'd do, and I was always happy when that happened because that meant they were con, helping to construct the conversation. Then I would just turn that question over to the rest of the class. Let other people go at it and, and respond to it or ask for clarification or, because because it's a process. Inquiry is a process, and one question stimulates another and another and another. So it's not unusual for kids to start having questions in response to questions, but it is the thinking process that's going on, and eventually it keeps building and building and leading to new knowledge for the whole group. Lisa? >> Yeah, I agree, exactly that. And like you all said, if, if to get, I mean having students question on their own, is like when we think about our teaching here at the museum, that's, that's apart of our mission. We, we want them to think critically and, and talk with each other, and respond to the prompts that we're giving them. But we want them to come up with their own questions about things. And I think that's, you know, again, agreed. Bravo if you're doing it. >> Okay. We have a question from. Okay, this is actually a really good question. How can we use the inquiry based teaching with persons who have developmental disabilities? Perhaps with someone who cannot respond verbally to a question. That's from Suzanne Johanson. >> Mm-hm. Okay. Lisa, you want to go first? >> Sure. I mean, we just so you know, we actually have, we actually, I don't actually quote any of those programs, but we do have community and access programs, or access programs, I should say amazing programs that my colleagues. Developed specifically working with people you know, adults and students and actually families you know, with disabilities. And I can actually, I think I did this last time, because it came up in the last round of our inquiry. I can put in the discussion forum the link to some of the videos they actually produced to document their programs. And they actually use a very similar technique. Even if the person can't respond verbally. What they do is they have people making art and doing things physically. That may not be, that's not verbal. So they do have these other kinds of techniques that they use. They still will show works of art. And. Goes through the art making process. But again they're just you know, they come up with other ways that are nonverbal. Different types of activities that don't require verbal skills. And then obviously the big question too as you, there is no one answer. Because there are different disability, disabilities. So you can't, I can't answer you one answer that, that fits everything. because that's just not. That it is, but again, these are these programs, there's always hands on processes that they go through in response to questions and works that they, that they show people in the galleries. >> Okay, we have a question. From Christina in Greece. I live in Greece, and unfortunately the educational system requires from the students that the students learn by heart everything so as to pass the exams. How can I use inquiry in the classroom in order. To enable the students to learn and also to pass the exams? Big question. >> Yeah and just so you know Laurel there's actually an entire discussion thread of all the teachers from Greece in Greek they're in there. Their online. They've developed a little mini, mini, course within the discussion forum so. >> Oh, I love it. >> So I'm assuming, I'm assuming that question is, is coming from there but it was, it's been really great. I mean obviously, I, I can't translate it for myself but compared to just watch how much activity is in that thread. >> It's fantastic. >> Yeah great. >> Okay. Yes! All right. Yeah. You are not alone. All right? Testing and passing exams is prevalent in western culture. United States certainly. Lots and lots and teachers here in the United States are struggling absolutely with this exact same thing. Which is you know, standardized tests kids have. And they're absolutely right and wrong answer tests. Kids have to pass those tests if they wanted to move on to the next level or go to college or whatever they want to do. And yeah, they have to take those tests. But, here's the thing. You're a teacher, and you want to ask yourself, when my kids leave me, when my students leave me, besides passing the test, is there anything else that I want to have contributed to their life? You are an incredible. Influence on a child, a student's life. Not just their test taking. If you teach them to think, you can teach them how to study, and you can teach them how to memorize. Those are skills. You can encourage them. You can do all kinds of drills and really interesting reinforcement techniques. But teaching them to think can actually help them when they've, when they're faced with an exam, and when they're faced with life. So what I did, because my children, my students had to take standardized tests, and they did well on the standardized tests, because. Don't assume. Here's the thing. Sometimes people think well, if I teach inquiry they're not going to learn the facts. No, no, no, they're going to learn lots of facts. It's just that in teaching them, when you start with an open-ended question, very often what you find by open, asking open-ended question to start with. Immediately you find out everything they know. Which saves you a whole lot of time, because you don't teach that stuff. Then you go on to what they don't know. And if you teach, and here's the other thing, you can't pass an exam, if you don't remember the information. You remember the information and if it's embedded in a meaningful context. We know this. It's very, very easy to forget something that you've tried to memorize and it's very, very easy to remember something that. About what you have had a colorful discussion. Maybe with some visual aids. So you can teach your content through inquiry and then have little exercises where the kids have to prove that they've actually memorized some of the facts. But it's not an either-or proposition, it's both. And the inquiry actually supports. Better performance. This is what we've found. Children who are raised in inquiry environments actually perform better on lots of cognitive tests and on a lot of academic trials. Because they've used, learned to use their brain well. So brave, you have to be brave, but you're serving them for life, you're serving them for life, not just for the time you have them. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, I think maybe this might be our last question and I feel like. Well, let's I'll just read it. This is from Chris Keily. You spoke about open ended questions and how they help docents. Are there specific, any specific resources you can point us towards regarding effective questioning in more depth. So examples of open ended questions, leading questions, etc. in detail. Yeah and actually Laurel in your chapter, well I know in your book, you have a whole series of questions and conversations. >> Right right. >> And I can't I thought it was in the chapter that we shared. >> Mm-hm. >> And was that classroom confidential for her? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There is. And. Likewise, I mean if Chri, Chris, Chris if you want to contact me, you have my Gmail. I can get you some more information on that. Because I do that kind of work with docense and I would be happy to share some more things with you, but in Classroom Confidential there are really. Hundreds and hundreds of open ended questions that relate to different parts of the curriculum, different topics. Hundreds of questions. If you go through the different chapters. So you can just go back into that chapter or go online and read and, and contact me if you want and I'll be happy to talk to you. Yeah, and I would also say, I mean, you've already seen some of the resources that I've put in our inquiry. We have some of our teaching videos that are on mobile learning. There's also all the downloadable slideshows that actually in the note section have information and the types of questions. Also on the mobile learning theme and object pages, there's questions that are embedded within there as well, and even in the Google Hangout video that we had you watch last week where my colleague Jessica and I. Lead a conversation around two works of art. There's examples there. I mean, there's, there's, it's more about also thinking about types of questions. because obviously, you're going to have your own questions based on what your goals and objectives are for your lesson, right. But, one of the other things that I will come up, or came up in this week's content is the idea of questions that. You know, some things will point to you know, something that's specific in terms of observation. So some could be an observation question. Some might be the types of questions that you develop to lead to more interpretive responses. >> Right. >> Right, so there's things about types of, of questions as well. And so some of that is obviously within the pages and also in Mora's, or in the course. And then, Morel and her book as well. So think about that also you know, when you're looking at all these resources and looking at these types of questions in context. Think about the framing. And I think Mora actually in the book does a really good job of kind of identifying the way he dove in certain types of questions as well. >> Mm-hm. And actually this is not a question, but this actually an answer from one of our participants to Chris, from Rebecca Mitchell. She says to check out project zero's artful thinking routines, which yes, those are great resources. >> Yeah, agreed. >> I think another, another article that I've read recently is. I think by John Shuh, it's S-H-U-H, and its called Teaching Yourself to Teach With Objects. And it's just a short, a short article and, about, you know, crafting questions, open ended questions. And then at, at the end, what he does is he provides these, this really great list of like 50 questions about how to look at a Big Mac box. >> Yeah, yeah actually. >> [LAUGH] Like the most quotidian thing and it can just spur like all these questions that you would never think of. >> Yeah, yeah and they get that in week one, but I'm glad you just pointed. >> Okay. >> So go back to that article in week one because I completely forgot about that the Big Mac box. >> Okay, so. Okay. I think, do you guys have any, I know you guys, before we started the broadcast. You guys had some things that you felt you wanted to kind of share as concluding thoughts. But, I don't know. >> Yeah. Laurel, is there anything you want to put out there? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Before we sign off? >> Just to say to teachers. It is such an extraordinary thing to be in a classroom full of kids, full of minds and to spend the day thinking with them. It makes the day fly. I am telling you. At, I have been had so many days where at the end of the day I was absolutely elated because of the work my kids had done. And not, I am not talking about you know, the 8.5 by 11, and, you know, pushing a pencil. I'm talking about the thinking. The, the creativity, the excitement. It's so satisfying. It can be very exhausting, because you are constantly in this mix with them. And you're, you're, you're in the moment. But it's so satisfying. So if you haven't done inquiry teaching. Just carve out a tiny piece of your day, and try. And do it for yourself. It'll be for your kids. But you will find that there is such excitement and satisfaction. Just spending your day thinking along with a bunch of kids, that you won't want to go back. So be brave. I know the system is intimidating out there, the big system, the bureaucracy. But, be brave. You are the important one in the classroom and you have the opportunity to give to your kids a lifelong gift. [LAUGH] >> Yeah, thank you so much Laurel. That's I, I, it's so great to have you with us. And, you know, I would say the same thing. Thank you to all of our participants in the course and in the hangout. It's been, it's been great to get your questions. Because you have the hardest job on the planet and we're here to support you in whatever way we can. >> Yeah. Thank you everybody. I'm sorry we couldn't get to all your amazing questions, in this short hour, the hour just flew by. But know that you can continue the discussion in the discussion forum of the course. And also, I'm just going to plug again, July 7th, our art and activity course starts. And that one is more focuses on, you know, using non-discursive methods of engaging with art. So, you know, it's kind of a part two. So thank you so much for spending this hour with us. Thank you to Laurel Schmidt. She's amazing as you guys all saw. And yeah, well, hope to continue speaking with you in the discussion forums. All right, bye. >> Bye. >> Bye.
