[MUSIC] You know, in our field there are few people who Tell everybody that what's wrong with our approach to marketing is we just don't spend enough money on it. >> Mm-hm. >> That everything we do should have an enormous marketing budget with it. I know in Hollywood a third of the budget is marketing. Is it just a resource question that we get wrong? >> No, I think you have to spend money on marketing, and in the non-profit arts there's a sense of, oh my God, we can't afford to do it because that's money that's been entrusted to us that should be used for mission-related purposes, but ultimately >> Organizations have to say it's part of the core function of the organization. It's not some add-on that's used to kind of enhance the organization. It's core. If you can't draw people in, if you can't connect to people, if you can't find out what they want and give them what they want, you're not producing value. So I don't think marketing should be viewed as overhead, an excessive kind of cost. Yeah, I think it should be viewed as part of a core function of the organization that makes it relevant. >> So it's an attitude, not an activity. >> It is, it's an attitude that says we're gonna know our customer. We're gonna know our audience. We're gonna try to design things that are gonna be of interest to them. That's not a sellout. It's not some kind of a treason, it's called smart positioning. >> And what about your own attitude, Peter? What do we need to do to adjust that? >> [LAUGH] [MUSIC].