Can you give a few examples of concrete projects where you are re-inventing cycling spaces? Yeah. One example is the project we do for and together with the Schiphol Airport, which started with both unsolicited proposal, so to say, and idea of us and also big projects on estate management. What we said is that if you want to improve cycling at Schiphol, everybody who's had been there knows it's not a big issue, that you should look at it like I said, infrastructure, plus surfaces, plus changing behavior, and it's not only on the area of Schiphol but you also should look where do people come from out of Amsterdam, for example. That's a project of us that we set a very concrete goal go to 10,000 cyclists in 2024. But have a total program, and we're still learning on that as well what is needed for that to achieve that goal. Mainly to get employees also to use the bicycle to go there? Yeah. We have different target groups. Employees is, of course, a very big one because of the more than 60,000 people who work there, and only a few take the bike. What we know, 25,000 live within 25 kilometers so with the upcoming use of e-bikes, speed pedelecs, there's a potential, so to say, so employees definitely, but we also look a bit at business travel and maybe in the future some tourism, even though, but it's a total program we see year by year, what are we going to do. Within that project, how would you say the concrete cycling spaces are reinvented? Are you building new infrastructure, and what is new about that? Yeah. It's like I said, it's a program of, of course, some, I would say, repair some of the routes, bicycle paths are not up to date, so there's definitely also a physical side of it, but it's also connected to, "Can people if they get some money for driving by car via their company, can they also get some money by coming on bike?" It was not the case, and it should be the case of course, so it's also those kind of arrangements that we work on, and it's also the changing behavior and the green waves, so all kind of elements. On one side we tried to convince people to change in behavior. On the side, we want to take away all limitations that are currently on the road or in people's mind. So for that, you're of course physically building stuff, so maybe you can say a bit about that, and also how building that stuff, there's also a digital component. Yeah. Some of the elements we built, so to say, is go to a nice four meters wide asphalt road instead of the 'tegels', the tiles, with holes in it. But we also work on smart charging and parking. What are the conditions that companies for changing clothes for example? Even we have a program for clothing. It can be quite windy so that you have a good coat when it's raining or windy. But like I said, it's also more and more the possibilities of digital that arise, so knowing where people are, and we also have an innovation on speed. If you imagine your situation that you come from Hoofddorp to Schiphol, there are some kilometers outside that you could really need some power assistance on your bike, the e-bike or the speed pedelec, but in Hoofddorp or at Schiphol Plaza, you don't need the turbo legs to go up to 20, 30, or 40. We also look at how can we arrange some zones, some areas where there's communication between the bike, the vehicle, and the road authority at Schiphol, about the desired speed. We call it adaptive speed control. Can we be flexible on the speed of the bikes? That's example of a more digital implementation process. One of the things we discuss here in the course is how it is important to include the multiple human dimensions of the user experience and how they play a role. On the one hand, how they play a role in our understanding, but also how these experiences are influenced by the things that we are reshaping in the cycling space. Could you maybe reflect on how those multiple human dimensions of experience play a role in these projects? Yeah. I could name some examples of that. The one example, like I said with adaptive speed control, the changing of your power assistance along your journey. Of course, people can look at it as a way that we are influencing their freedom, which of course nobody likes, but we have done a lot of interviews with cyclists at Schiphol, and some of the insights is that also the users don't want to have the speed at Schiphol Plaza where it's crowded, they're crossing, so there are buses, so a way to get the right narrative that it's not a limitation, but it gives them more opportunities. They have one bike, but on one time it is normal bike, one time it's e-bike, one time it's speed pedelec. It seems like a small way of putting it, but it really makes a difference for users to see it not as a limitation, but/or as an expansion of possibilities, and that's of course crucial in communication, in projects, in also success. Another example like I said, the bicycle service point, the example of do we have to put it there for the employees, for business people, or for tourists? What are their demands? That is also crucial to know those insights, to get to talk to them to be successful in project. That's brilliant. To close this off, to students that are listening to this part of the MOOC, what would be your key takeaway message to get smarter about cycling futures to them? One of the key insight is that I always try to enlarge the scope. What's the project, and sometimes you ends at a small scope or maybe it's only one project, but in the designing process always enlarge it and also enlarge it with partners. We're a construction company, but I have multiple partnerships with big companies, with small companies, and they all come with their own expertise, their knowledge. One is to design a process, to have that on board, that's one of the key insights, but I think you know that metaphor, what would you like to look at the future and try to describe it? What you would like, what makes you happy so that you envision the future and then go back, what is stopping that, or what's missing? That's another way of looking at the development. So never see cycling or cycling innovation as a goal in itself, but always try to see how it can be a means to reach bigger goals. Yeah. Exactly.
