You were talking about long format films, is virality and old world, an old word, sorry. For you do you think this growing construction of long stories is looking for just a deeper relationship and less immediate profit with customers. >> I don't think the virality is something that it's not important anymore, but I think that it's a consequence. And this consequence depends on many things. The size of the brand. >> Yes. >> The size of the budget of the brand, the size of the audience they want to reach. If you need a big audience, if you are going to make a content for everybody, virality is going to be a measure of your success because you have to reach everybody. But if you want to reach everybody, you have to have a lot of money to invest in sharing the content. >> In promotion. >> In promotion. >> In an old fashioned promotion with new tools. >> If you are going to do it through the internet, you're going to have to pay media to make this content, to help the content to be shared. What I think is that virality is not a measure of success or at least it's not always a measure of success. Because if as we have talked before, maybe you need to reach a small audience. So then virality is nothing you have to care about. A good content I think is that content that reached the audience you want to reach. And we have worked in project with projects where the target audience were only 300 people. So if you reach them, that's a success, you don't need virality. But sometimes, or I can't say almost always when you go to take briefing to a brand, they always want a viral video. And as if you can buy a variable video in a shelf of the supermarkets, taking carrots, a viral video, and so and that's not possible, and sometimes you really don't need it. And to make a viral video, it costs money and it's very difficult to get viral only with organic growth. It's very, very, very difficult. >> You mean with money not for the actual production, but for the promotion? >> For the promotion. >> Because you're spending money. >> You can be viral with very simple content. >> Yes of course. >> If it's well designed and it's. >> It goes to the point. >> It goes to the point. But nowadays with all the content that is accessible for the people to be viral only because of your content is good. I think it's very difficult. >> Would you be able to tell us if you think there's a fixed percentage of the budget, which must go in promotion? So people don't think that this is just such a simple world where you just create good content and it reaches Kuala Lumpur tomorrow, it's not so easy because there's so much content. The content surplus means that new strategies must come in place, do you normally reserve a certain fixed percentage of the budget depending on the project? >> No, we haven't worked like that already. >> Or let me rephrase, do you agree with me that the budget for promotion is necessary? >> Of course, of course, I think that. >> And there are gatekeepers, different gatekeepers, there are Google Facebook et cetra. >> Of course, of course, I always say that we have to learn from the people that has been doing this for decades. If you we go to the Hollywood studios, they, when they make the budget of a film, the promotion is inside this budget. Nobody thinks that you can spread the production budget from the distribution budget. They are all the same thing. And they have been working like that for decades. So why we think that we are going to be different? >> Well, maybe some people, we may have thought that people have focused because of the emergence of the social media which apparently allows you to reach everybody. Donald Trump has the same tools as a small farmer in Iowa in theory, that may be the cause of this. >> But now, we are seeing that doesn't work anymore because it's too much content on the. >> I come from a journalistic industry and I can tell you currently it's impossible to be successful without spending a lot of money in promotion in social media. >> And in fact if you don't, you can spend that money and if your content is not well designed, you are not going to reach the audience. But it's the same that in film industry, you can make a very big movie with very high budget. But if the people doesn't like it, there's nothing to do. >> So there's a very simple conclusion or you need money but if your content is not good enough money is not enough. >> Money is not enough. And if your content is good and you don't have money for promotion, It's very difficult to reach. >> It's very difficult. >> Very difficult to reach the audience. But I recall what I have already said that it's you don't need to reach everybody. So if you need to reach 300 people, your budget is going to be small. So it depends on the goals of the project. >> Absolutely. Am I accurate in saying that one of the positive outcomes of this growth in branded film is a certain revitalization of the industry as a whole? That, do you find talent people which traditionally worked in in film industry, in artistic movies. That somehow at the beginning, as happened in journalism with brand journalism, saw this marketing content work as a secondary form of work, less ambitious maybe for the personal development. And are now moving to a sector which offers new economic opportunities with high budget sometimes et cetera? Is this landscape correct? >> Yes, I really think that it's going like that. It's at the start, it's beginning, it's at the beginning, this process because we have to break a barrier, a frontier. Because the people from the film industry has looked at brands as sponsors of their content or as collaborators of their content. But now we are talking about the brand as the owner of the content, as the producer of the content. So that means that the brand decides the screenplay with the screen player, decides the director, decides the actors and the actresses and sometimes. >> They pick them with names. >> Yeah with the help of agencies like mine or others, but they are the owners of the product, they want to make decisions. And the film industry has looked at that with reluctance. >> Yes, with reluctance because it was non artwork. >> Because they think that brand film like advertising film. So the brand is not going to be honest with the content because their only objective is to sell. And that has not to be a bad thing because now brands are making content and they are showing their interest with the practice. Making contact that also gives them, the film industry the opportunity to talk about things that they care about because brand film doesn't have to speak about the brand. It has to speak also about the things or the the subjects that the brand think that they are important and so they can speak about women empowerment. They can speak about environment, they can speak about how to manage with aged people. They can speak about a lot of subjects that are not direct. They are not their products. So the film industry is finding that they can do good films with brands. And there's a group of people here in Spain at least that there are working with brands continuously. And they are doing very good films. And they have learned that they don't need to, the brand is not going to cut their creativity way of doing things. And I think that if that goes on, maybe we can be looking at the future as where brands are going to be one of the main protagonists of the film industry. Because they they have the money to do things, not only in fiction because we are talking about fiction more or less during our chat, but only non fictional work. >> Yeah that true, we didn't talk about documentaries. >> They are doing very good. >> Actually even more clearly. >> Even more clearly because. >> In nonfiction, actually. >> And if you talk about budget, documentary needs smaller budget than fiction. And in the future and nowadays there are brands that have reached that the people pay for the content. And you can page to go to see the Lego movie, you pay for a lot of content from brands. So maybe the future goes this way. >> So you think in a significant number of cases, creative professionals from the film industry can find a similar amount of creative freedom than in fiction? Normal Hollywood studios where there's always a producer as well as more [CROSSTALK] executive producer. You have to cut 20 minutes [CROSSTALK]. >> I don't like this, you're not going to reach the audience in that way. So it's going to be the same, they are used to it. >> They are used to it. Okay, well, thank you so much for being with us Anna, extremely interesting interview. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, that was very nice.