My name is Johannes Drielsma. I'm deputy director of Euromines. It's a mining association representing companies that mine in Europe. When you start to look into the details of the economy and how a circular economy would work, there will always be a need for primary production and so we're looking forward to keeping the circular economy rolling. Well it's important to recognize that even here in Europe, where we're a fairly mature economy a lot of our infrastructure is built out still the non-energy raw materials that come into our economy about 80% of them are going to building up in-use stocks. So they're serving some valuable function in our economy. It's only really 20% of those materials that follow that linear path that we're trying to eliminate. So there will always be a shortfall and that has to come from primary production. Technology? Technology changes, and that causes a shifts of demands so there may be a reduction in demand for some materials. But then there'll be an increase for others. But then other raw materials come into focus, things like lithium and cobalt for batteries. And as well, different technologies drive changes in demand for your more traditional materials, so if you look at the way automotive products are developing now, they're going to require a lot more copper. Which is a fairly basic, well known metal that we've been producing for thousands of years. So these things drive demand. But as well development needs. Again, even here in Europe, we have certain regions in our union where there are real development needs that need new infrastructure. They need better standards of living. But there's one target alleviating poverty in the union where there's been absolutely no progress made in the last ten years. So it's important for people to realize that we are on the whole an affluence society, a developed society but we still in all have development needs even within our union. Then of course, if you want to talk about Africa, or Latin America, China, India, etc these are people that want to have a good standard of living as well. They have development needs as well. So this is driving up the demand for raw materials. To try to understand very well, what are the trends in the economy? And we rely, a little bit, on history. Fundamental rules that we think hold. But we always have to be aware that the future is a new world. And the trends are shifting and are changing. So that would be our first responsibility. The notion of responsible sourcing, so I think that would be then our next responsibility to engage with the local community, explain in very clear and transparent way. The likelihood of a money project, the risks of a money project and of course the potential benefits of the money project. The revenues that come from a good tier one money project can be very significant and can be very important to the host country. And so that also introduces a responsibility for the sector to work. Cooperatively with the government and make sure that revenue is being managed well and for the good of the host community. There's a shared responsibility there to make sure that these investments don't only provide materials to meet the demand for use in the economy. But that we can also get some co-benefit from that in terms of development of the country, development of skills, development of offshoot industries, service industries, etc. The material goes through so many different hands on its way to the different final uses, and internally we tend to call that materials stewardship. So all of the practices and systems that you need to put in place to make sure that you handle the material well and that you handle the impacts of your processes well and that you then inform your downstream partners so that they can manage the materials well. And, so that's also an important part of circular economy, understanding that the materials themselves may be quite amenable to circular practices, metals are very good for recycling. But the materials themselves will not be sustainable, it's the practices. That will make the economy or the supply chain sustainable. If we're doing the material stewardship well, then we are retaining these materials in the economy for maybe second, third, fourth, fifth uses. We're refurbishing machines, we're re-using materials and then ultimately recycling materials. And what that means is that we're prolonging the life of these materials in the economy. And it means that we're stretching out the time before which they become available. As secondary raw materials. I see secondary production as one of the life phases of primary production, actually. And we should perhaps be trying to design our primary production such that there is always a secondary production coming. And when we have these long lived products together with increasing demand it actually limits how much secondary production can contribute. If we imagine for example that a typical copper containing product has a lifetime of say 25 years, then we can say that perhaps if we've recycled every atom, then the maximum amount that we can produce the secondary production should equal the primary production from 25 years ago. So there are statistics that you can take to show how this might pan out and for example, you can take 1985 global production of copper and compare that to 2010 demand for copper. And what you see is it would meet about half the demand, because of the increasing time that we keep them to. In the economy. So provided that these drivers for demand continue, development needs, technology changes, the need to maintain our infrastructure, etc. I think there'll be an increasing need for mining. Because mining will be called upon to provide an increasing amount of our raw materials, at least in percentage terms. From the mining perspective I think we are, and should be doing circular economy simply because it makes sense. These are large investments in time, and energy, but also in human effort, to uncover these materials, to extract these materials, and provide these materials to society. So given that large investment, we should be doing as much as possible to recover as much of that investment. And so I think that naturally means keeping the material in functional use in the economy for as long as possible. It means turning it around into second, third, fourth use lives. And then that means with every successive use of the material, you're getting further benefit from that initial investment. If we allow these materials to run a linear course and leak out again from our economy, I mean we can consider that some sort of loss, some sort of wasted investment, really, because we've used it once and then it disappears.