NNOF is a service that we started about 10 years ago. In another company, we have a removal company, logistical company and we have a consultancy company. Our main business is the interior design and creating the interior of an office. So, we're in the office moving, office building, office infrastructure, etc. NNOF started as a service in the removal industry, where we had to get rid of an awful lot of old furniture and we installed an awful lot of new furniture. And because we were in the consultancy and the interior design, we try to match up all the old furniture that was thrown away with building new furniture to install it. That's basically the last 10 years in one minute. Each five years we double the turnover and the amount of people that's really by listening to your customers. So, we have an awful lot of good customers and they face some problems on their workspace. They come with those problems to us and we see those problems as opportunities. So, NNOF a lot of the way we grew is customer driven. They had a problem or an opportunity and we took that up. You have a more personal ambition that's how can we work in a more sustainable way? I think as a company you can do an awful lot. So, we started by calculating carbon footprint of our companies and then out of their carbon footprint came the repair business that we did already from the very beginning in the removal industry that by repairing you avoid emissions. So, we took that as a starting point. Maybe we have to repair more and from the repair can do reuse and from the reuse and repair can do remanufacturing. So, it's those two ways that made us what we are today. It was never really an aim or say no, we want to become the first circular company. Although there is a bit of manufacturing and there is a bit of works that needs to be done on the furniture, is much more logistical process in order to do so. It's complex logistics, you have to pick up all the old goods. You have to empty a building and take out all of the furniture. You have to dismantle all the furniture. You have to work on every part of the furniture and put it back all together and go and re-install it at your customer. First is all the environmental side of it. You bring less carbon to the market also although, you don't create any waste because you reuse your own waste. If you dont NNOF your furniture or if cannot reuse your furniture, you will have to throw your furniture away or give it away and you have to go to a company... to let produce new furniture. So, there is a waste issue which is very important. All of the logistics and all of the works are done locally. So, there is also advantage in local employees and also the price might be more interesting in order to reuse because you don't have to buy new but you can reuse your own. That are basically I think the four main advantages. So, 'reNNOFing' or 'NNOFing' your furniture. If you look on the intellectual property and this is a part of a leg of Belgium table. It's one of the most famous legs of a table in Belgium and there is an intellectual property on this. So, if a customer has his leg, I can work on that leg. I can put holes in it, I can cut it, I can do whatever with it because it's his leg. If I take this leg out, I will buy it from a customer and I'm starting to work on this leg by putting holes in it or by shortening it. I'm sure that the designer of this leg, the lawyers behind it they have an issue because this is a protected leg. I'm not allowed to put this leg on the market. So, I can work with it as long as it belongs to a company or to a customer. It stays his properties. Basically like tuning your car, you get your car in and you have your car tuned and you can maybe sell it as a private car but once that you start selling tuned cars as a service I think you will have some problems with car manufacturers. There are some problems with taking out furniture from one company and go and sell it on the market to a different company. If you take out that furniture you put it onto markets in a circular economy. We can deliver certificates on what we add to a certain part of furniture. The furniture as a whole, a chair as a whole we cannot deliver a certificate. So, if we want really to go circular, we need a different kind of certificate in order to prove to the customer this piece of furniture is okay. We've been talking to Belgium institutes that give that kind of certificates. But we can never prove the history of the parts and the particles that we use. So, as we cannot prove the history, we cannot get a certificate. Therefore, we have to be very careful in order to take out one part and bring it to the market. We cannot deliver the same guarantee as in a linear economy. It has nothing to do with the quality of the goods, it has a lot to do with law and how certificates are given these days. So, if we really want to go impact and creating impact, I think the policy should change. I mean perception is an issue because you always work with all things, people think it will never be as good as new. There isn't any difference with new but there is on the perception side there is a big big big issue there. We're always compared with second hand and old furniture. I don't see why because I think everything looks new it isn't new. We weren't able up till now to get really an investor in. That's because 80 % of the works are done by blue collar, by labor, by hand. We're very low-tech, were very basic, we come, we take the goods out, we dismantle them, we do some work. So, labor hand work and people don't like to invest in hand work unfortunately and we need that I think in our economy. The last and one of the biggest problems that I think that's socially in Belgium is that we don't find any skilled labor anymore. People we get, we send them all to universities, Lund University, the Catholic University of Leuven, etc. So, you have an awful lot of intellectual capacity which is building up in a community but in a circular way you need hands, you need labor, you need skilled labor. And what we have been doing the last 15 years is skilled labor. We don't need that we're going to import that from Poland and we don't find that skilled labor anymore in our economy. It's going to be a big challenge. Maybe not on the knowledge side because we have the knowledge in house and knowledge can be transferred very easily these days through the internet. So, taking the knowledge internationally that's not a problem. Taking all the logistical issues internationally, we have to build up chains of different services that come together. We started about two years in Holland. We've done about 10 to 15 offices in Holland but basically we took out the furniture I brought it to our Brussels office and reworked the furniture and installed it. But now we're looking at how are we going to build that chain of activities in Holland? And then you have to put parties together. Somewhere in the grey margin does our competitors from another. So, it's not easy and it's going to be a challenge to bring people together and to work together in a circular way. You cannot work alone anymore because you don't have all the knowledge or the competence in-house. So, you need partners in our company well we basically did it in the last 20 years ourselves by always adding services to our model but we don't find a similar company in the rest of Europe. So, we have to put parties together.
