All right. Well, welcome back. Boy, that's a hard video to watch, isn't it? >> That is, you can relate to both characters there. >> Yeah. >> You know, I feel for Arna. >> Mm-hm. >> She's angry, and she needs to get all of that out. >> Yeah. >> But then you just feel for that learner who seems like he's shrinking as the whole video goes, right? >> Yeah, yeah oh, it's terrible and and you notice that she's, like, up on the chair and he's down on the couch, so there's this kind of power position. >> Right. >> It's just hard, it's hard, and so, have you ever felt that way? >> Angry at a learner, or? >> Yeah. >> You know, I think we all have, right? >> Yeah. >> We've all worked in difficult situations, where things don't go well and we're upset. >> Yeah, and so what do you, what do you usually do at that. I, I have a, I've kind of a method or a ritual that I do when I get really mad. And so I'll usually kind of do a couple loops around the emergency department, that I might kind [INAUDIBLE] or go at least talk to somebody else and find somebody else and then go find the learner. But I find that I have to really settle down, and get in the zone so that I can give them feedback. I think more often faculty just kind of go home and, you know, get mad at their spouses or the residency director and say, you know, this resident was terrible. >> Yeah. >> But don't actually do the, address the resident at that time, it's so difficult. >> I think taking some time is. >> Mm-hm. >> To cool off is a great thing and sometimes, I'll write down some of my feedback points. >> Mm-hm. >> On a little post-it note. >> Mm-hm. >> Just so that I remember to stay on track. >> Mm-hm. >> And don't go off on too many tangents. >> Yeah, I agree. All right, so let's think about how we're going to provide feedback to Arna. And so what would our feedback objectives be? And I think, I think there could be a set of objectives of, you know, what are the objectives for Josh in terms of learning. But I think we should focus really on Arna, and what our objectives would be for her in terms of providing feedback. >> Mm-hm. >> And so if we're trying to get to improve in her method of feedback giving what would we want her to do? >> No, I think we want her to be able to talk about a learner’s strengths and weaknesses, but I think that we want her to be able to do it in a constructive manner that’s going to be more useful for the learner. And so I think if we keep that as our goal in mind, we'll accomplish more in our conversation with her. >> Yeah, I agree. And I think, I think if I want her to have kind of a practical thing to take away from it, I think I want her to be sure to get the learners perspective. >> Right. >> Because we don't know if he didn't have knowledge. Was he late? You know, is there a substance abuse issue? Is there something there that's underlying this, that caused him to have such poor performance? Or or is there some other reason. And so I think getting his perspective so that we understand where he's coming from, or so she understands where he's coming from, would be kind of really important, so that she could provide feedback on the right things. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And she says everyone says that you're terrible, but we don't know if he's got any feedback. And so I think exploring that with him, and asking him what feedback have you received before? >> Right. >> Would let us know where we need to start from. >> Yeah, I agree. And so I think if I were Arna, I might or if I'm giving feedback to Arna it might start with so what do you think went well? So you that can see if he's got any sense of it. >> Mm-hm. >> And if he says oh, everything was just fine it was a difficult airway not my problem, then you know that you've got something to work on. >> Mm-hm. >> Whereas if he said something like, wow that was just awful. What could I do better? You could walk him through the steps of how to prepare and to get stuff ready. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> You know, I think we could even ask Arna what she think went well in that encounter when she gave feedback. >> Yeah. >> And what does she think she could do better? because, maybe, maybe she has that insight and knows that maybe that she yelled too much. >> Right, right. You're so right. So, see, you can see I was already going to telling her what she did wrong and what she did right. And I think that eliciting that perspective from her, about what she could do better would be really useful. >> Mm-hm. >> Agree. >> well, great thank you very much, I appreciate it. >> No problem, thanks. >> Okay.
