[MUSIC] Hi, I'm Josh Horowitz. I'm happy to be joining my good friend, Carol Adams. Carol is the CEO of the Carol Adams Foundation, works on domestic violence issues, and she's also a Sergeant in the Richmond Police Department, Richmond, Virginia. Welcome and thank you for being here, Carol. >> Thank you for having me, Josh. So you're talking tonight mostly as role from the Carol Adams Foundation, but you also work in the Police Department. Could just give me a little sort of just a brief overview of how being in law enforcement interacts with your job as a domestic violence advocate with the Carol Adams Foundation? >> Wow, well, they're overlapping, so I guess it's like a marriage. [LAUGH] You can't have one without the other. And that's sort of why are the Carol Adams Foundation was created because, of course, my family, my life experience as a child in losing my mother to gun violence. But the work, I've been on the streets and I've seen it over and over again, where domestic violence is really, really rampant. And when we talk about gun violence and the relation to that, my years of experience as policing and understanding mental health, mental issues. And when we talk about domestic violence and we talk about the risk orders, that's just hand in hand. Just like my work with the foundation and work with the Police Department, where one doesn't go without the other. >> That's fabulous, great work and so important. I know that as part of the foundation, you've educated women, especially women of color, about domestic violence protective orders. Are there some lessons that you could share with us about educating community members about extreme risk protection laws? Maybe extrapolated from the work you've done with domestic violence orders? >> Yes, absolutely, the educational component is very, very important. Because when we think about the protective order, it says a lot and it means a lot, but only if the person, the other party, is willing to abide by the rules and the stipulations. >> So what are some of the lessons, if someone comes to you and says, hey, I need a protective order. What are some of the things that you do to educate them about what the order does? >> Okay, well, first of all, the order helps create a chronological order of events when we're talking about going to court, and that helps to document the historical context of the violence. It also helps the court and everybody else understand what this perpetrator is doing, is that the perpetrator will not leave the personal alone and does not want to abide by any rules. So that means that that person feels that their life is in danger. And so this is really, really significant because you're in fear of your life, but it's someone that you know and that you loved and that you cared about. And it's really, really difficult to have an understanding as to what this person will or will not do, and it's sort of like the educational component is that this person is about to go over the edge. And so that makes that individual feel that they have to take all of the necessary steps to be able to protect themselves from being harmed by this particular person. >> So let's take your experience with DV protective orders and apply them to extreme risk laws. Now with extreme risk laws, we know that it may be that the person who is subject to the order is a danger to the community, but oftentimes there's someone who might be worried about self harm. So what is it that we want? What are the lessons that we can learn when talking to law enforcement, for instance, about extreme risk protection orders? What are the lessons that you've learned from your work in the domestic violence world that is appropriate for now, these new extreme risk protection orders? >> Well, to listen, listening is number one. Is to listen to all the things that they're being told, and you want to to know the mental history of the individual, the perpetrator. Because if this person has tendencies to be violent towards others or to possibly hurt themselves. And we know when we talk about domestic violence perpetrators, they often threaten to harm themselves when the person that they are hurting does not listen to what it is that they say. So they revert back and forth. And so these extreme risk protection orders could help so much, save so many lives, when put in place. Because if there is a weapon in the hands of these individuals, then it can be taken away. So that will reduce the immediate harm, especially the harm of gun violence. But if that person is really, really going off the edge, they could do it by any means necessary. But at least Here if we listen and we document and we pay attention because so often that we don't listen, we listen but we don't take it seriously. And when people say that they're going to hurt someone or kills someone, we have to educate and let people know that they are serious. And it does not matter how many times that person goes back, the victim goes back to that person. But if that batter or says that they're going to hurt them, we need to be serious about it, we need to support them, and we need to believe them. It does not matter how many times this occur and that has been been horrified through these processes. Because sometimes people have not been believed of the urgency of the person really committing and going following through with this act. >> Is there an opportunity to avoid the criminal justice system by using the civil order like in our pool? >> Absolutely, and that falls on family members because family members know their loved ones. And so when family members realized that their loved one has certain tendencies, or that they may harm someone or harm themselves, then they have a duty to respond and a duty to act. So that they can prevent their loved one from hurting someone else. So it's really, really important that we educate, but we have to arm family members with the knowledge as to what it is that they can do. Because most of the time they are helpless, just like domestic violence victims. They're helpless because they don't know what things are in place that can help them. And then sometimes things are in place, but it's difficult to maneuver through the process. Does that make sense? >> It does. >> Because they are met with, they already live in under hostile circumstances and then they are asked a lot of questions and I really at that point in time they just won't help. So we have to have caring people that has the capacity to stop and to take time and to care for the person that they're working with so that they can help them with the next steps. And not deter them, and I think we do that more than often that we deter people from following through with the processes that are in place. >> How important is it for law enforcement to be part of the education process about Extreme Risk Protection Orders? Very, very, so we have to build partnerships. It has to be on going on where people are working together so that when you need to call the police to implement something like this, you already have a built in relationship. It's like creating the savings account, so that we do this work together, we have conversations together and it's about educating. And so you may not need it now, but if you ever need it, at least you understand what the process is going to be like. Because in law enforcement I think we get in more trouble because we don't understand, we don't explain our processes. And so it takes the police to explain the processes and to humanize it and to let the individuals who have worked with to empathize with them for their particular situations. >> And I should add not only your are the CEO of the Carolinas foundation, but you are storage with Richmond Virginia Police Department. And I know you do a lot of domestic violence work there as well, so I'll ask you one final question. >> You got the floor, what do you want people to know about Extreme Risk Protection Orders? Extreme Risk Protection Orders are in place to help and they are in place to protect you and your loved one because you want your loved ones to be as healthy as they possibly can. And if this is going to help get them the care and the the services that they need that's really, really important. And then it's there to help others to save others lives, because if your loved one is at that point where they're either suicide or they at the point that they're going to hurt someone else, then you don't want that. So it's really, really important for both parties and for both sets of families. I'm so learn as much as you possibly can about it so that you can understand that it's there to protect and it's there to help you as a family. Whether you're the family of the victim or your family of the perpetrator. But families are perpetrators for my aspect, have to step up and be responsible for their loved ones. And to help get them the services that they need and not just pawn them off on someone else and then they're gone. And they're not their responsibility anymore, so that's what I would want people to know. But do your homework, go online, there's lots of information. And then just call any of the service providers or the police if you need to have a better understanding of this process. >> Carol, thank you for your time. I know you're on the frontlines of this, both at your work, as in the Police Department, but also of course working with, I'm sure thousands of women over the years. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for sharing some time with us and I really appreciate it. >> Thank you, Josh, thank you for having me. [MUSIC]
