[MUSIC] >> Welcome to week four. This week, we're looking at can schools make a difference. And I'm joined by my colleague Dr. Jane Perryman, who's done quite a lot of research in this area. So we'll start off with an easy one Jane. What makes a good school? >> Well I think that a good school is one which enables students to do better than they could be expected to do. There is of course, a lot of research on what makes schools effective. And there are lists of factors, such as effective leadership and management good pupil behavior, high parental involvement in the life of the school. But every parent wants different things from a school. So if you're asking the question from a parent's perspective. I would suggest that a good school is for each individual student, where they would be the most happy. >> But wouldn't you expect all schools to have those kind of factors? >> All schools can have those sorts of factors, but that completely ignores the socio-economic background of the pupils. The funding of the school. In an ideal world, you could say that all schools should have a nice looking classroom. But if you put a plant in a classroom and water it and it grows lots of lovely pink flowers, it won't necessarily make the teaching any better. >> Jane much of your research, has been on school inspection systems. >> Mm-hm. >> Does inspecting a school have an impact on the quality of that school? >> It absolutely has an impact on the school, but obviously, some would argue that the impact is positive and some would argue it is negative. There has been research on, for example, student achievement in schools. Which indicates that in the years after a school is inspected, student achievement actually goes down rather than up because, all the teachers and the leaders of the school are focused on passing an inspection, rather than teaching the students properly. It can have a massive impact on the leadership and organiza, organization of schools. some, again, would argue that leaders. Focus on inspection and all the policy in the school is based around what they expect inspectors to see, rather than actually what may be good for the school. And teachers would argue that the impact of inspection is that they feel they have less freedom and autonomy to teach lessons as they want to. I will give you an example a few years ago it suddenly became, the said that schools should all teach, via a three-part lesson. Now, that is the way you teach and you rarely see people teach any different. So, the impact of Ofsted is almost systemic, rather than on individual schools. I'm just conscious, that a number of people taking part in this course may not be aware of Ofsted and who they are >> And we've, we've talked about, mentioned Ofsted >> Yes. >> Quite a few times. Do you want to just tell us who Ofsted are and why they're so significant? >> Ofsted is the inspection system in England and Wales. It was established in 1992, and there have been a number of inspection frameworks by which they inspect schools. The general the, the inspection teams are privatized these days, and made up of trained inspectors, lay inspectors. Quite often they may be ex teachers and, and leaders. This is of course controversial because, you have the framework by which Ofsted inspects on the one hand, and the different inspecting teams on the other. And some schools may argue that different inspection teams may inspect differently. >> Why does Ofsted do inspections? >> Okay. Inspection is part of the accountability culture, that characterizes much of our education system. It is widely believed that schools, leaders and education authorities, need to be held to account for people progress. And not, left to their own devices as perhaps was the case in the past. And the inspection system is the way that the government ensures the standards are, are being met. >> So when you say it like that. >> Yes. >> Actually inspections don't seem to be too controversial. They, they just want schools to be better. >> Yes. [COUGH] that is true and that is one way of looking at it. However. Much research, including my own, shows that the negative effects of being inspected, can outweigh the positive effects. >> So, can you give me an example of what a negative impact of an in, inspection might be. >> I certainly can. One of the issues with inspection is particularly for schools which are perceived to be not satisfactory. Inspections can be very stressful for teachers, but particularly if a school is perceived as not meeting the standards. And if you remember what I said earlier about the makeup of inspection teams and, and, are judgements fair or not. This can lead to, people losing their jobs. Leadership teams going. And parents withdrawing children. Now obviously I'm talking about scenarios that, where schools are failing. But even in schu in schools where, inspections go well they generally pass. They may even get outstanding. There is quite a lot of research to show that the high stakes accountability of Ofsted. Leads to, the whole school make-up being driven by the Ofsted framework. So the school and the leadership team no longer do what is necessarily good for the school, but they do things which will help them to pass Ofsted. It's a similar argument to teaching to the test. People argue these days that, that whilst the students are becoming very good at passing exams. They're not necessarily being well educated, because they're being taught to pass the exam, rather than actually taught the skills and knowledge they might need for wider life. >> So you're saying that schools are developing to pass the inspection as opposed to developing in order to improve the education, that goes on in the school. >> Indeed. >> When a school inspection happens, and a school is judged to be outstanding, or good, or even if the judgment is that it's not so good. >> Mm-hm. >> How reliable is that judgment? >> Well, that depends. Much research would say that One of the problems is the variability of inspection teams. And another issue is that it is felt that if you are in a school with very good exam results, possibly from a, in a, in a very nice area, then inspection teams may go in and see a good school. If you are a school in more challenging socioeconomic circumstances where the exam results are poor, the students have poor literacy, then the inspection teams will go in, almost with an agenda to find out what is wrong. >> Is there any evidence that, that's happened where a, an inspection team has gone in with an agenda? >> I'm not saying that the agenda is, is, is something that is completely conscious and there's certainly nothing written down, but I almost think that inspection teams can't help being influenced. Just by the statistical data that they have, if one week they've gone into a school where it's 90%, of the students are meeting the required targets. And then the next week they go to a school where attainment is far lower. They may go into that school thinking, I wonder what's wrong with this school. And actually what is wrong with the school, is that is it, it is in an area where, the socioeconomic circumstances of the children that go there, mitigates against them achieving
