Tarzan is now performed in Germany, in German. Professor David Savran has studied this new trend towards transnationalizing the mega musical. So, I was just thinking we could almost start by looking at your article that you published recently. Just quoting it, Trafficking in Transnational Brands, The New Broadway-Style Musical. So, if we just look at that title. >> Uh-huh. >> It's full of very interesting terms which one does not >> Uh-huh. >> Normally associate with the musical perhaps trafficking which is, which you associate with drugs, perhaps? >> Yes. >> [LAUGH]. >> And illicit things. >> [LAUGH]. >> Right. >> Brands? >> In terms of brands, one thing that my project is about is really looking at the simultaneous rise. Which really happened during the 1980s and into the 1990s, of what I'm calling the transnational musical or transnationalize to musical that. I mean, a most of them, virtually all of them started either in the US or the UK and they've just become hugely popular all over the world. And, I know it, I think in both Germany and Korea and so many places that Cats was actually the first. In the 1980s but there have been so many others and I mean Disney of course is by far the largest producer of these. >> Mm-hm. >> And if the sort of us is also during this period that, branding became a huge business, specifically in the arts. And especially in the commercial theater. Well, not only the commercial theater, I mean non profit theater in the United States. The state theaters in Europe as well. And so, what I'm looking at, is I mean part of what I'm looking at, is sort of how branding works as a way of both establishing a national identity and destabilizing. [LAUGH] >> Yeah. >> As undermining that national indemnity, because brands have I mean, I mean Disney of course is headquartered in the United States, but they're such a international brand. >> Well, Disney is a brand in itself. >> Yes. >> But, but you are saying this branding process affects. Is it, is it also linked to specific works? >> Yeah, oh, absolutely and it's not only Disney that the way that they control the advertising of the logo. I mean, I was just in Hamburg the other night and I did not, I have not seen Lion King there but you know, they have exactly the same logo. >> Yeah. >> And it's, it's sort of the same brand basically. >> Yeah. >> And Disney but not only Disney, I mean DreamWorks with their, with their musicals. The Andrew [INAUDIBLE], I mean they basically use the same kind of advertising strategies, worldwide. Although with a certain amount of tailoring to particular markets of course. >> Mm-hm. One of these interesting developments is that, that companies, film production companies as you said like DreamWorks or, or Disney have started producing theater basically. >> Yes. >> Which normally you would associate as a, as a, highly non-profit making. >> Right. >> Undertaking but, this does not seem to be the case. >> They are prepared to lose money in the short term, I mean this was the case with DreamWorks and their musical version of Shrek which was not initially very successful. But they knew that in the long run they would end up making money because it just, because the musical provides another platform for their product, basically. So that, you know, people buy the, get the Shrek drinking cup and, and then oh, well maybe I should go see the musical as well. So it's sort of part of this giant, brand umbrella. >> Or, commodification chain. >> Yeah, yeah. >> This is of course what one norm, would normally associate with United States. >> Yes. >> I mean being the, the, the, the, the originating nation of these kinds of techniques and commercial. >> Right. >> Strategies. But, lets talk a little bit about Germany, the musical in Germany because this is a very unusual developments coming. >> Uh-huh. >> Looking having been an observer of German theater for many many years. >> Uh-huh. >> The musical is not something one that associates with German theater. >> Uh-huh. >> The operator perhaps but certainly not the musical. >> Right. >> Can you, have you an explanation for the phenomenal success of the, of these musicals in Germany? >> My part of it as well is global branding. I mean one of the things that I'm arguing in my book is that Korea and Germany are the most Americanized of the countries sort of in their sphere. >> Mm-hm. >> And I think this is very much the case in both countries in terms of sort of the consumption and increasingly the production of these sort of, of musicals. >> Mm-hm. >> But the, the thing is in Korea, the spectators are highly professionalized. I mean they really know what they're seeing and there's a very, very sophisticated fan culture in Korea. >> Mm-hm. >> So, yeah, part of it is the brand, but, but for example the Lion King which is the biggest of the brands was not that successful in Korea. >> Do you have an explanation for that? >> No [LAUGH] I don't actually. >> [LAUGH]. >> Its the same in Germany, apparently Tarzan was not so successful in the United States. >> Oh, its a huge disaster in the United States. >> Yeah, a disaster in the United States and its a very successful musical here. >> Yes. >> Yes, now see, my theory about that actually is sort of linked to the history of colonialism. >> Okay. >> Because I think that I don't know, the, the German relationship to Africa is so different from that of the US. In terms of sort of the history of colonialism. Plus, interestingly the Tarzan stories have historically been much more popular here than in the United States. >> Normally with transnational music you think you're getting a carbon copy, but it's not the case. >> No, no, and actually I'm tempted to say there is no such thing as a carbon copy in terms of live theater. >> Yeah. >> That the only way that these musicals can be successful. First of all, they have to be translated and but its not just a question of translating the lyrics. I mean there were certain gestures and conventions. >> Mm-hm. >> That have to be translated. >> You use this term transnational. >> Mm-hm. >> So where, where do you see the, the, the transnational dynamics really at work in this in what you're studying in this makes a musical. >> In stage entertainment after all is, is, one of the largest theater production companies in the world, actually I think they are the largest. I mean they're headquartered in the Netherlands but their real base of operations is here. >> Yep. >> And but they also have theaters in about a dozen countries including the United States. And they invest in shows mainly in New York, well, in New York and in other parts of the world. Last year they brought Rocky from from Hamburg to New York. Which is a sort of peculiar example because it was put together by a US based creative team. And it's, of course, very extra American of a story. >> Yeah. >> So there was a huge amount of invest, overseas investment, the biggest of the Korean musical theater producers also invested in Rocky. >> Okay. A lot of Koreans are investing in New York because the success rate for broadway musicals, their investments are a little bit safer in New York than they are in Seoul interestingly. >> Okay. >> And slightly higher success rate. >> Okay. >> So there's just a lot of money. >> Mm-hm. So, what and what's the next big market, is it China or India? >> I think China, and this is something I'm very much in the process of doing research on. >> Mm-hm. >> But because the musical theater industry in China is nowhere near as big as it is in Korea. And, but increasingly a lot of Chinese tourists are going to Seoul to specifically to see musical theater. And the Chinese from what I've seen, you know, are still sort of working on getting the style down. Which is something that the Koreans really have mastered. >> Yeah. >> I mean in some ways, I think they do it almost better than the Americans do. >> [LAUGH]
