So of course when we talk about leadership, we are necessarily talking about relationships with other people and we have to understand that. How do each of you think about leadership in relation to others? That's everything, right? I mean it's, [CROSSTALK] it's like, yeah, it's like the whole volume- >> [LAUGH] >> Is our relationships to others. And even when we're leading big groups of people or large teams or organizations, it's still, for me, comes down to those interpersonal relations, the one-on-ones. And the ongoing effort of building trust, building and cultivating trust with folks. >> That's it. I mean for me, it all comes down to building trusting relationships and understanding what that means. Because with that as a foundation, when the bad stuff happens, the trust is there to fall back on, when the good stuff happens, the trust is there to catapult it. Trust is required to build psychologically safe environments. It's required in every field. It's just, it's hard for me to find a relationship where trust wouldn't be important between a leader and employee or team member or whatever. And so now that's still a broad-scope idea. But the second we stopped trusting and we're uncertain and we do the ethy things and behave in funny ways or we tap into weird parts of ourselves. So that's a little soap boxy, but I believe that trust is foundational. >> It is, [INAUDIBLE] some I read the other day, so I'm sure it was some mean kind of thing, but trust, it's built in these drops, these little drops over time but you lose it in buckets, right? So it's ongoing. Again, it's this theme of this is an ongoing never ending process of development. >> Feels that that's really true, losing it in buckets and building it and drops so precious and to work to maintain that. And then the idea of the term relationship and thinking about even if you have a team, right, of ten, you have relationships right with each person. And that needs to be built not just this collective, hopefully, cohesive and functional unit, but those individual relationships. >> Because it gets back to something that you've said earlier, which is every one of those folks on your team are different. They're coming with their different attitudes, personalities, backgrounds, perspectives and so you can't broad-brush a relationship with your team. They're humans, right, each individually. >> I can't help but think of Ted Lasso because there was such a great show and I mean it's been used a lot in the context of leadership and teams. But if you think about the trust that he built with each of his team members and he did it in very different ways, right? So, now I can't remember their names cause I watched it last season, but the one player Jamie who ended up leaving, there wasn't a lot of trust there at the beginning but he built it in a very different way than he did with Sam Obi Sonya. And then there's a great scene where he talks about he had hidden something from them and they found out about it and he owns up to it. He says, I didn't let you in on something that you should have known and I hope you don't let that take that trust away in buckets, right? Because I wouldn't want you to hold anything back from me. And I thought that was just a beautifully written and performed moment of demonstrating what developing trust with your individual team members. And then owning up to make sure you don't lose it in buckets. >> Yeah, another thing you said earlier too about building up trust for the bad times, to buffer you and get you through the bad times is that it's also important for us to recognize in the leadership process that our teams of people are going to come into conflict naturally, right? It is natural for all of us come into a situation with different perspectives. We're going to naturally rub up against each other and that's okay. >> Yes. >> And if we're good at this and focused on this process of developing trust, we can navigate those very natural times of conflict a little bit better I think. >> Even adaptive, right? They can be helpful for us if we recognize that they are natural, we have that trust and we build and allow that engagement to not have us lose, right, buckets of trust. But rather continue investing, acknowledging, supporting, and facilitating those discussions in the face of conflict to help us grow and do better. >> Right, because out of the conflict often comes innovation and creativity and all the good stuff that we seek. >> So I'm hearing that of course it's very much the foundation that leadership is an interaction with other people. That trust is kind of the core of that relationship and must be built and maintained and having that awareness and openness to acknowledge when we ourselves diverge from our best self or best interpretation, right, of what a leader is. If we own that and are straightforward and engage in a vulnerable way and ask that not derail the relationship, we actually can build it even stronger and use that to navigate the conflict. That is a natural aspect of people engaging with one another when they have different perspectives and backgrounds to help us perform at our best as a group. >> Yeah.
