Prevalent then. Even today, as I show the doctors a pathogen. But the more we began to study it, the, the more we began to find that it appeared to be protective against other disease, causing some diseases, protective of other disease. Like diseases of the esophagus, esophageal reflux, and the cancers that come after it. And what was particularly important, is that these are diseases that are going up dramatically. And we know that is declining and this, this for me began the idea that as certain organisms are disappearing, other diseases are rising. And, I think that's, that's really our central view about Is that it has cost and it has benefit. I've been interested in bacter, because there's evidence in Western societies. That this organism is disappearing. And we're interested in osccilbactra because it eats oxalate which is an end product of human metabolism and that's important, because there's a disease called kidney stones and the most important cause of kidney stones are oxalate stones. And there has been work that suggests that having oxalobacter, eating oxalate helps protect our system from oxalate oxalate kidney stones. So that, therefore the disappearance of oxalobacter could be important. And it actually correlates, its disappearance correlates with the rise of kidney stones in the US. So I'm interested in the question how often do the people here have oxalbacter? We've begun looking at level of oxalbacter in fecal specimens from, from the Hadza and we find a much higher prevalence of it than in people in the U.S which is consistent with the idea that we had and lost it, where as they still have it. Yeah, I think that studying traditional people like the Hatsa give us an opportunity to understand what the micro, human microbiota used to be like before the influx, the onslaught of modernity. Modernity starting from chlorinated water, and antibacterial substances and fluids and antibiotic widespread use of antibiotics in our society. So this is a chance for us to understand, what's the nature of the diversity? Which are the organisms that they have, and for us to develop inferences about. what, what are the important organisms that we may have lost, and that we don't want them to lose? So, it's very, it's so interesting to see the Hatsa there. They're such beautiful people. They have a traditional way of life, it's been successful for them for thousands of years. Yet everywhere the, around them, there's, there's progress. And transition. Progress is the arrival of agriculture. Progress is the arrival of pastoralism. And it's pressing them on all sides. And it's, it's the arrival of cell phones and antibiotics. And pad, pad motorcycles and cars. And the question is, how, how are they going to make that transition? How are they going to adapt and, and continue to sustain their beautiful life, and their beautiful lifestyle? And I think that's really a critical issue. And the microbiome is part of that, because they're, just as their traditional ways are. Under the assault of progress. And progress is has a, has very good components to it. Probably the microbiome is under assault also. And coming here we found that a lot of people are, are already getting treatment with antibiotics. And some of it is clearly justified. But some of it is probably isn't. One of the questions I have is how can we help the Hatsa avoid some of the mistakes that we've made without over exuberance about antibiotics and try to balance it more, so their microbiome which is probably even more precious to them than it is to us because of their. Kind of limited resource base how can we help them keep it intact and also how can we learn things from what their microbiom has been and where it's going. That will eat, aid us and the rest of the world. And so that raises other questions. What's the window of time of loss and how can we restore? So that we can prevent. How, how can we prevent further degradation? And at, at what point can we turn things around and, and, ameliorate them? Here studying the Hatsa perhaps gives us opportunities to discover organisms that one day we may give back. To people in the United States or, or, or people here in Africa as well. Because modernization is proceeding extremely rapidly. There's been a perception that antibiotics have no cost. We've been using them more and more for more minor. Kinds of ailments [NOISE] and problems on the thought that there is no cost, but maybe there's a little benefit. But once we understand that there's costs, then we rebalance the equation. We find that the effects of antibiotics are additive to the effects of, of rich diets. So that 2 plus 2 can equal 50. That kind of thing. We, we have to be more judicious, in our use of antibiotics. I'm impressed by the Swedes. They're only using 40% of the antibiotics we're using in the United States, at every age. So it immediately tells us 60% of our antibiotic use in the United States is, is unnecessary. Probably the numbers even higher. And so this is guided me to tell my family and friends to minimize antibiotic use unless it's really necessary. And to tell my physician colleagues which I do a lot. These are the cost of antibiotic use.
