[MUSIC] In this module, we've looked at some fairly provocative models of music education especially around electronic music. But now we're back in what I think most music teachers will think of as slightly safer ground. I'm here in the Gamelan Room at the Conservatorium with Richard Gill, OAM, who is one of Australia's most celebrated conductors, music educators, and composers. Richard, I want to focus on teenagers and music education mostly in this interview. But first, I wondered if you would share with us your philosophy on what we want to do for younger children in primary or elementary school. Right, well it's very clear to me what we should be doing in primary schools. It should be all vocally based. All music education in the preschool and the elementary years should be about singing, and it should be a wide range of singing. It should include classical songs and early songs and popular songs and spirituals, folk songs, world music, as much music as they can possibly get hold of. Because it's from the singing that they learn all the concepts. They learn how to read, they learn how to write, they learn how to improvise, they learn how to compose, and it's cheap. You don't have to buy expensive instruments and regular singing is a wonderful thing. Socially, a whole class would be singing, and it's a wonderful thing for the community of the class. So, for me, it's what's called a no-brainer. Singing is where it goes, and the thing we're doing wrong is not doing it earlier. But with the high school kids, every kid in high school loves music. They just don't like the music that they're being taught, mainly. And they don't like it because, A, it's taught badly, B, it's not related to anything they know. C, there's a lot of written work that goes on that is pointless and meaningless, D, teachers occupy the time by giving them worksheets about color the violin in and who cares. Instead of actually saying where can we go with what you know. And what that does is actually breed a series of programs which appeal to the lowest common denominator. So a lot of people say, I know how we'll get to these kids, we'll do pop music all day, every day. Nothing wrong with pop music, but it's a bit like saying, I know how to feed these children. We're going to give them Mars bars every day. I think I've made my point, that if you come in at the level kids know, you can branch out forwards and backwards with that. And I used to actually do that. You see, I worked out pretty quickly as a young teacher this, I had to get to these kids through stuff they knew, not by imposing what I thought was good. And the kids let you know that real quickly, that it's not good in their view. But, we shouldn't be in that circumstance. Secondary teachers should not be in that circumstance. Secondary teachers should be receiving kids, who've had pre-school music then six years of primary, and they can sight read, they can do anything. Look at the Hungarian kids. Grade five and six Hungarian kids. Well, they're spectacular. Look at the Finnish kids, the Swedish kids, the Norwegian kids, they're amazing. Are our kids any different? No. But how do you respond to the accusations that performing repertoire like that is really outside their own world of experience. That's making it very difficult to connect with them. It is, isn't it? Fancy giving children something they don't know. Fancy thinking at school they might learn something different. Fancy thinking at school you might challenge the mind of a child. So the idea that we should only give them popular music is a stupid idea, I would go so far as to say it's a stupid idea. It is equally stupid to give them only Baroque music. Children should have a wide range of music, and they should know lots of music that they haven't hithertofore known, that's what school's about. It's about learning stuff you don't know. Hello. So why is that a surprise? And people have to get over the idea that there's one way to do it and that there's one repertoire and that's the only repertoire you should do. My experience from watching you teach and watching programs in schools, really strong music programs in elementary schools is that when it comes to the question of notation, kids actually can pick it up. And you've talked about the importance of not needing to start with notation. It's just another thing that they learn along the way. How can we broach that issue with kids who've got to that age, again, 12, 13, 14 who haven't got any experience in music notation? Where should it sit? Is it something we should ignore? Should we deal with it, should we not deal with it? I think at that age, given that you're going to do some improvisation with them, and you should, they should be inventing music, playing music, making up music. If they need notation, and they see a need for notation, by all means, teach notation. But don't teach notation at the expense of the music itself because you'll turn them off. And a lot of people are not certain how you introduce notation to children. They think you just put stuff up and off you go. Now, that's part of it. So my view would be, sound before symbol, and only the symbol if it's necessary. Again, I solved this problem in secondary schools with graphic notation. We used to do a lot of graphic notation. After a while, that stops being interesting. And so then maybe we need to learn some rhythm. What's the easiest thing for kids to read? Rhythm probably, okay. Pitch is different, but they can read some rhythm. So when we're going percussion ensemble they can read rhythm. And they actually enjoy identifying patterns which are similar, patterns which have differences, that sort of theme in analysis and observation. And if you engage them, if you actually engage them, and you treat them seriously, and you demand they're going to come with you, and the music is good, they will. Thank you. Well, now it's your turn. In these two modules, I've tried to present contrasting research about music education and its place in the 21st century. From modern but traditionally-based music education through to looking at modern music cultures, and how they might influence music education. So I'm going to ask you at this point to look at the different sides and to think about where you stand. Is there somewhere to stand in the middle? Can we take the best of both worlds? Children's own musical cultures and their interests and traditional pedagogies, or do we need to side with one way of doing music education ourselves? I think that the most important thing is that you've thought critically about this and started to develop your own philosophy. So I'm going to ask you to do a peer review task. I'm going to ask you to write a few hundred words on what you think and to look at at least two other people's opinions and to discuss them respectfully. And this is all part of developing your own music education philosophy. [MUSIC]
