You have done research for many years on social networks, on professional networks and have taught people and coached people, leaders, managers, all over the world, you know, how to rethink to some degree how they are approaching networking. Based on that experience. What are some of the most important things that you've found we need to understand how we approach networking? Well, it seems that one of the important things is that, when you talk about network, everybody thinks that they know how to network. Just having connections, that's enough. That may not be always the case, in the sense that, having connections doesn't mean that you can actually use them. Mm-hm. In the sense that, it is true that, it should allow you to tap into sources, get information, coordinate activities, et cetera, et cetera You might actually want to do something else about that. You might want to be able to transform your network into a way of accessing some capital. You might want to transform a network into social capital. And that might create some problems when it actually comes into this kind of process of transforming connections into social capital. Okay. When people try to do that, try to transform their networks and change the way they're interacting with others. What do they usually do? I mean what are their instincts when when they try to reach out to others? What do they do? Well I think it boils down to some as you said, instincts, some of the assumptions or the, or the biases that you have establishing some sort of relationship. It starts with the how. We establish relation with our our preferences. It seems that, we establish relationships based on three big principles. The first one is the idea of a fit. So it seems that it's easier for us it seem lot simpler for us to establish connections and relationship with people that are like us. Meaning that, every time in a context something might be unfamiliar to me, or even if it's familiar, I always look for someone who looks like me. So the result is that we end up having connections and relationship with people that are of, possibly of my same age, same gender, same nationality, or any other personal information that you can think of. So pretty much. It's the idea of building networks is tapping and accessing possibly different resources, if everybody's like you, truly actually maximizing the access to different resources that you might have. Yeah. The second principle is the idea of proximity. We like to build a connection, or it's easier to build connections, more natural to build connections with people that are close to us. Like we are right now, very close. Right, exactly. The same idea. So for me it's easy, or for people it’s easy, or seems easy to build connections with people that are next door. The office in front of me. People that I interact with every single day. Again, in this case, it's understandable, it's natural. But the problem with it. We have that too. Our offices are very close. Exactly. Besides, teaching together, obviously. It seems that you know, if it's a natural tendency, this thing the problem of it is if you think about the professional context. And again you want to build relationship that allow you to tap into different sources, access information in different parts of the organization. If this is the tendency, we end up having most of our connections with people that are close to us. They do our job, they're in the same office and the same function etc., etc. So you also know the same people again. They know the same people again. We end up having connections that pretty much replicate possibly even the formal structure of organizations. So I'm not really tapping into resources that are in another organization, I'm not tapping into knowledge in other areas, I'm not tapping into information. I cannot coordinate activities. Above and beyond what the structural organization, is already doing. I might not understand what other people in other areas of the organization are doing. That may be. There's very little added value in a sense Absolutely. Yeah, okay. The added value would be able to being able to actually start building connection with people that are now. Proximate to us. Okay. Another natural way that we build connections is through common parties or third parties. Mm-hm. I am introduced to somebody else, and so I establish possibly a connection with someone else, again. That is another natural tendency that we do. If we all do that, so I start introducing all my direct connections to each other, the end result is that my network is going to be very close. So that is very good as you, as you pointed out. It might be very good for a lot of things. You might actually have high collaboration, higher trust cooperation, etc., etc. But you also have the problem of no new ideas, or redundant knowledge lack of innovation and all these different problems. There is, if you think about these tendencies that we have, the problem of transforming our network into super capital might become really difficult. Then when I think about that, last one. To try to overcome those problems, I mean it's clearly often need somebody who introduces you to somebody else. Yeah. But I guess you need to be very careful. Who that person is and who they actually know, Can they actually connect you to someone that you otherwise couldn't reach? Is that the idea? Yeah. That would require actually an ability which might not be the case, we might not know that. An ability to first of all knowing. Who they know. And in this respect, you know, today we have a lot of social media that helps us understand the kind of connection that people have around us, so they could be a tool that can be used. Hm. In some other cases, it might be a possibility that if you want to tap into or establish a connection on a person that we, know that we would like to have a connection with that person. And we know that he is connected with a friend, we can try to actually transform or leverage the connection we have to get that specific introduction and to actually access that thing. But that requires a level of knowledge, possibly, of the kind of connection that people have. And sometimes we're not even aware of the kind of connection that we have which may be difficult to really understand what kind of connection others have. True. True. Our knowledge of, our appreciation of the networks that are out there. I know the various relations that people can have is naturally limited. Yeah, exactly. It’s just too complex. You can't keep all that stuff in your head. Exactly, Exactly. What can you do then to reach out if you can't have that degree of knowledge to foresee whether someone might have a beneficial connection? What would be your advice? The advice would be, well I mean very simple advice would be try and meet other people, get out of your comfort zone. How do you do that? That would be weird, bizarre, it would be awkward. You can't go outside and actually grab people on the street and say hey, let’s build a relationship. So the thing would be for me. You would be misunderstood Yes. The thing would be to start considering the fact that we build connections in a specific context. The situation work with our self matters. As we said in terms of proximity for instance. I established relationship with people that are proximate to me. I'm in a specify context, so the situation around you matters a lot. If I want to start establishing connection with people that are somehow. Different or further away, I want actually start working on the situation where I put myself. If I want to diversify my network on a personal basis or a professional basis. I might want to start thinking about, okay, so, I would like to actually establish more connection with people in the other factions and organizations. What do we do? Let's try to join a team where people from that specific area are. So I join the team. At the beginning that might be awkward because people might be different from me. At least I perceived them to be different from me. Yeah. But then after a while through interaction, I might establish connection. I might want actually again, join projects with people that are different. Try to think about job rotation. The idea of job rotation is not just to want to learn skills within the company that are different. You may also use it to build connections with other parts or with people that are in other parts of the organization. Something very simple, go to lunch with people from the upper floor, which we never do. You know, somewhat bizarre accept lunch invitation to people that come from out there because we don't know them. But once you actually overcome that and you actually start again putting yourself in situations that are different then you might start building and developing a connection with some of these individuals to diversify somehow the network that you have. I like this idea that you need need a situation or that you need a context that basically gives you a reason for making that connection, be it a project or a work rotation program. I'm guessing if you really are asking somebody out for lunch from, another floor you also want to give some kind of a contextual excuse. Absolutely. You cannot even, and this might sound bizarre, or actually seem a bit over-simplistic, but if you think about, Building a relationship with someone, you need to actually have something to talk about. Find a way of actually starting to build some sort of exchange of conversation about something. You might not even want to focus only on the things that you do on a daily basis. You might want to have different interests, you might want to be able to talk about different things. Create a way or a reason for why you want to start this kind of new situation. Find a way to actually doing it, by enlarging the possibly even the sort of interests that you might have. That may actually be appealing to somebody else. I really like this idea that you need to have a good excuse in a way, A good reason, a context be it a project or be it the rotation program, or what ever else to establish the relationship. It doesn't feel weird or out of context I guess. Mm-hm. Even for the. lunch kind of situation where you can connect. You probably need that too. You wont have a good reason why you're asking someone for lunch. It's completely outside of your social or professional network. Yeah. I mean, one of the ideas that you, can or at least the way I see it is that you cannot really replicate what people are writing now what they really have. So you might want to actually offer them. A reason or an excuse, or something that might be of interest to them again if it's true the fact that you know relationships are built on some sort of let's say reciprocity. Reciprocity, so it's an exchange of something which might not, be always, reciprocal in the sense, the currency ratio between, the exchange might vary. Still, I might have actually have something to give to other individuals. Mm-hm. The idea could be that if I want to try to establish a relationship or a connection with someone who is different from me, or at least in other areas. I might have to be the one actually making the effort to understand if possible. What the other person needs and wants and try to be able to extend my area of interest and my knowledge to be able to provide them something new and something that they don't have or something that might be of any interest to them. Okay. You're trying to articulate, trying to frame what that exchange could be from your perspective based on your knowledge of what the other person might be looking for. Absolutely. You need somehow be a little proactive in trying to find out. You guess what people may want You may be wrong sometimes, but you know-, An educated guess. Exactly, an educated guess so you may want to try that. Interesting, so when we think about it from this perspective that you are proactive about. Thinking through what it is that you could offer and this kind of social exchange that you're proactive and reaching out beyond your regular social circle. You're strategizing a little bit about. You know, what do I want my network to be like? Okay. Do people make mistakes when they try to do this? Are there traps that we should be aware of? Well the trap actually comes from your strategizing. I don't think you need to strategize when you talk about network. If you think in those terms it means that you’re using your network to take advantage of individuals. You're not strategizing, you're systematizing. Let's put it in this way, you try to be systematic in what you. might need and what you might offer. Okay. You know that you might want to have objectives in the future, long term, mid term, short term, or something like this. And you know that if you want to meet some specific objectives you need some resources that you don't possess and some other people do possess. The idea could be try to find out who are the people that posses this kind of resources and try to be generous. Mm-hm. Try to offer them what they need, going back to what we were saying a minute ago. Mm-hm. If you can figure what they need you want to be the first one actually making the effort to offer something that they need. If they do. Counter reciprocity. Yes. Counter reciprocity then, if I am generous, offering people, then you invest in what some of is call the bank of goodwill. So it's upon the time you start investing in helping people out; giving them what they need even without asking something back at some point in time but you know, just for the sake it because in these things you are going to increase the resources that are actually. Pushed in your connection. At some point in time, it is possible that some of these connections might be useful for you, they’re going to reciprocate. This kind of connection might not only establish a connection but also provide the resources that you need when you need them. Transforming again, we started with that. You want to transform your networks into social capital. If you are able to get the resources because you provided something beforehand, then you’re really actually transforming your network and social capital. Hm, very interesting. I like this metaphor that you're using is that you're investing in your network systematically. I like this metaphor that you're using is that you're investing in your network systematically. Systematically, yes. So you're not trying to strategize, “Who do I have to talk to today to immediately get some kind of strategic advantage for myself?” You're systematically cultivating. By investing in relationships. Right with a kind of long term orientation. Yeah. In a way, right? Once I remember, one of the the quote that I really liked a lot, you know, was talking to an executive was very good actually managing his own, his own networks. He said that, you know. Networks are not gained their earned so you need to earn your network so it means that you need to do a little bit of homework or at least understand and also make the investment to really get some earnings out of the investment that you made.
