The Meno in honor of those self help books we judged by their covers two videos back let's ask suppose you just had the title The Meno. What would you think. Well, nothing, obviously. You don't know who this guy is. But that's interesting. Plato's audience would have known. Same for Euthyphro. Plato's readers' first take, given these titles, would have been [LAUGH] Oh, that guy! So what would have been the oh, that guy reaction for Meno? We can't be totally sure. But probably something along the lines of what a ruthless ambitious jerk that guy was. I'll see a bit more about Meno biography before we're done. But just take it from me. This would have been the likely reaction. So think about how that puts the question, what is virtue, in kind of a funny light. Think of someone you think is a total jerk. You have them firmly in mind? Would you debate what is it to be a good person with that person who isn't a good person? What would be the point? Anyway, getting a grip on Meno's personality is helpful, because getting a grip on Meno, the dialogue ain't easy usually the first problem, its pretty intuitive. And if all else fails, at least that dialogue is quite short. Republic can get really confusing you'll see, but at least Resimuscus is a great villain. If all else fails, you can just watch him chew the scenery. But Meno, first of all, it's kind of long. Second, it's got a weird three-part structure. Part one, discussion of the nature of virtue. Part two, a surprisingly long geometry lesson. Part three, another discussion of virtue. Geometry and virtue? Why are these two great tastes that go great together? You know what's even worse? The transition from part one, the first discussion of virtue, to the second, the geometry lesson, happens in an extremely confusing way. There's this odd bit where Socrates quotes an ancient Greek poet named Pindar. You know what Pindar was famous for? Being hard to understand, that's what. But here goes. Persephone will accept requital for ancient sin from those whose souls she will restore again to the sun above in the ninth year, and from these seeds men will grow, noble kings, mighty in strength and greatest in wisdom. And for the rest of time, men will call them sacred heroes. What the hell does that men, you think. And I say, that's right, it's hell, you got it. And you say, what? And then, Socrates starts to teach geometry, of all things. It's a nightmare. So I'm here to help you with all that. Having bothered to quote it, let me do my best. We don't have the rest of Pindar's poem by the way. So, best guesses is all anyone's going to offer you about this text. Persephone is a Greek goddess, daughter of Zeus, part time queen of the underworld. Patroness of agriculture. That is, of the eternal, seasonal, rebirth of life on Earth. Persephony is a cult figure in Greek mystery traditions that are, per the name, rather mysterious. If you want to know a bit more, which will mean you know almost as much as anyone really knows, you might google Orphism. But ignore the stuff about modern art. Orphism comes from the name of a hero, Orpheus, who went to the underworld and returned to tell the tale. Great musician, but he couldn't save the girl. But I digress, back to Persephony. She's all about death and rebirth. That's her jurisdiction you might say. From the fragment, it seems that if you atone for your sins, or for some original sin if you pay the price, if you make recompense, if you render your soul pure. Then after you die, you don't have to stay down there in darkness forever. You have to spend some time down there in darkness. Maybe this is part of that recompense you pay. Nine years in the dark, but you get to come back into the light. And not just be born again, if you're one of those purified souls, then your soul gets to be the soul seed of a hero, a king. Someone who will be famous forever! You might be born again as one of those people whose biographies for sale, in the self help section. I know what you're thinking. If I worship Persephony I might get to be Steve Jobs? Well, don't get your hopes up kid. But there's definitely a no pain, no gain theme here in Pindar. Reincarnation is the ultimate body building dream. You get literally a new body built for you to be in. But the body is not the point. Being pure of soul, of spirit, that's the point. Alright, sounds great. But what's Socrates' point? What does this Persephony stuff have to do with virtue? Or geometry? Remember when I asked you in the first video, is it a useful skill to be able to provide a plausible answer to any question. Let me now ask you a follow up quiz question. Check all that apply. What's the point of having real knowledge about X? For any X. A, So that if you need knowledge about X, you've got it. B, So that if you need knowledge about something else, call it Y, you can maybe build up to it, or out to it from a solid base of X. C, So that if you need to sound knowledgeable about something you don't actually know about Y. You cook up something plausible on the spot based on your knowledge of x. I'll bet some of your only checked a and b whereas some of you also checked c. If you didn't check C its because all my talk about Gorgias two videos back primed you to hear C as an option for cheats and fakes. C isn't a use for knowledge more a misuse but think about it. You do C all the time its fine if you don't know something you try to cook up something plausible based on what you think you do know. C is just another word for B and B is fine. If you need to figure something out, you build on what you already know. So what's the big deal problem with Gorgias supposed to be? Come to think of it, plausible answers for everything. I think the problem is this. Being Gorgias means never having to say you're story in an epistemic sense, a knowledge sense. That is, means never having to say I don't know, or I was wrong, or I was being an idiot. Because you can always cover up your ignorance and errors with something plausible. That's your talent, your skill. With this Pindar poetry, Socrates is giving Meno a no pain, no gain message regarding the use of that Gorgiastic skill. Unless you are prepared to suffer the pain of admitting your ignorance, you're never going to learn anything. You can't come into the light unless you're willing to stumble around in the dark, for awhile. We won't get to the geometry lesson until next week, next lesson but math is good for the soul. Why? Because very often when you look at your math homework, you are forced to admit I have no idea what the answer is. And then does it do any good to read about how to win friends and influence people? Or what the habits of highly successful people are? No as a rule it does not help. But we're getting a bit ahead of our story. Having given you some sense of the overall structure of the dialogue and one reason why a lump of geometry between two slices of virtue might be a nutritious if odd tasting ethical sandwich. Let's go back and start at the beginning. Can virtue be taught? Well, that would depend on what it is. Wouldn't it?
