Hi, how are you? >> I'm good, thanks. Thank you for joining us today, Jada. Would you like to introduce yourself and your own career path and how you came to be doing what you're doing at the moment? >> Sure. Actually I'm working as a sustainable consultant in Turkey, in Ankara, which is capital still of Turkey. And the sustainable career was, wasn't actually a bit, How can I say that, it's a different story for me, because I was working in a big holding company as a corporate communications responsible. And the sustainability issues were responsible of that communication department. There was no separate department, and the job that I did actually lead me to have an education about sustainability. So, I got master degree from Steinbeis University, Responsible Management Program. So my sustainability career starts at that point actually. Actually, I wanted to establish a separate department in that holding company but they didn't let such kind of things so I just quit from there and start up a new company and work as a consultant now. This is my career path. There are so much opportunity in Turkey about sustainability consultancy because most of the companies has no separate departments about sustainable, but they're required sustainable practices by financial institutions, banks, and by other stakeholders. So there are a lot of practices but there is no separate departments inside of the company. Actually, I guess that ten or fifteen companies have separate departments, but the rest, they're trying their best by their communications department. And sustainability is not very strategic part of their business, that's the reality. They are demanded some practices and they are trying to do their best, but as far as from my observations, I can't say that sustainability's their basic management strategy of Turkish companies. When you see their websites, they are philanthropic practices under the heading cost of sustainability. They contribute financially to schools or hospitals, such kind of philanthropic practices, and they communicate these practices under the name of sustainability. So I can say that sustainability is very strategic management issue in Turkey. >> So can you tell us, then, in your capacity as a consultant, some examples of companies and projects that you do in order to bring sustainability into those clients' work? Whether to help them with their communications or whether to actually help to build sustainability strategically into the companies. Can you tell us some of your examples and projects that you've done? >> Sure. Borsa Istanbul, which is stock exchange company in Turkey, they work so hard to make sustainability as strategic for companies in Turkey. Their sustainability index in Turkey, so companies started to fulfill the requirements of this sustainability index, which lead them makes sustainability a more strategic position. So the criterias or requirements of sustainability index are really important actually for my own business. They force companies to measure their impacts and communicate their practices, not only verbal but also numerical. So they started to publish their sustainability reports regularly and the content of the reports become more qualified. So sustainability index is very good force for sustainable practices in Turkey. It's very crucial, because if you don't force companies, they just say, okay, it's good. We have to protect, in nine months, we have to protect our workers, so on, but they don't want to spend money on such issues, right? But if there is a force, then they do this. So sustainability index is a good starting point for making sustainability more strategic. >> There are some- >> [CROSSTALK] What changes have you seen, then, in the companies since the bosses introduced the sustainability index? Have you seen some visible changes? I mean, there's obviously transparency, there's more transparent regime and it can hold companies to account. What kinds of changes have you seen as a result of that initiative? >> The biggest changes, there are separate departments for sustainability issues. This is the biggest change. And the second important change is they share more numerical data. So transparency also improved. And I don't see that so much, but some of the companies, some of the company's CEOs or other executive managers talk more about sustainability in their interviews or in the meetings. Their conscience really improved. So it's another important change, I think. What can else, Yep, we can say that transparency gets higher points, so. >> And so we could maybe say that the boss in Turkey is acting as what we might call an institutional entrepreneur in the sense of making changes to its own practices, its own regulatory requirements that have a knock on effect to bring the companies into line, if you like. What motivated them do you think? And was it a particular individual, or was it a initiative? Or was it a request from government, or where did this motive and driver come from, within the boss to set up this initiative? >> The government is not an important actor for sustainable. First, I have to say that. But there are some initiatives, which create driving forces for companies. First of all, UN Global Compact took here. They really work hard to increase the conscience and correct practices, let's say. They really work hard, and they publish so many guidelines for companies. Second, as I mentioned before, sustainability index is a big motivation for companies. And I think in 2015, sustainability index required from banks to major companies' environmental impacts before providing loans. So in very near future, if companies do not care about their environmental impacts, or the social impacts, or economic impacts, they will not able to have financial sources. So, I think it's a very crucial point for motivating companies to become more sustainable. >> So you seem to be saying that as a systemic effect on the company's ability to raise funds and finance for itself, that it helps if they're doing well in the sustainability index, they're more likely to be able to raise resources for themselves in order to carry out their activities. >> Exactly, exactly. Also, yes, but there are some universities, but two or three universities only, study sustainability. One of them is very famous. And that university studies sustainability under the name of corporate governance. And they have plenty of students who are interested in sustainability. So again, in near future, maybe five or six years, there are really good qualified workforce will be in the market. So in the near future, there are educated workforce will also increase the good practices in Turkey, I think. >> That is really fascinating. So it actually gives me a pass into my final question then. So we have a picture of sustainability in Turkey from the corporate's point of view and the systemic effect, number of push pull factors, the boss, the ability to raise finance, and now you say about the development of an educated and qualified sustainability workforce. So can you imagine then, let's take that idea of a future, pen portrait five years, ten years into the future, where do you think things are moving for Turkey and its companies in terms of sustainability, responsibility, and ethics? >> I think it will be like in Europe. Turkey is still improving in many ways, its economics, its political. There are some problematic points about politics in Turkey. In spite of that problems, companies, I think, will be better about sustainability issues, because they collaborate with European companies, they collaborate with American companies. These kind of calibrations force companies to become more sustainable, right? Because there are some universal standards about ethics, about environmental issues, so they have to fulfill these requirements. The governmental local file requirements will not stop that improvements, but I can say that only for big companies. Smaller, medium companies, improvements will take more time, I think. Because sustainable practices require financial sources, and small and medium companies doesn't have that kind of financial sources. So it will take time, I think, but big companies will be very successful in, let's say, five or seven years because improvements are done very quickly. Requirements become more strict and strict each year. In 2012, there was no requirement for banks to measure companies' environmental impacts before providing loans. But last year, in just three years, they put such strict requirements for providing financial resources to companies. So the improvement is made quickly. >> And what kind of form would you see that improvement making? For example, you mentioned at the beginning a kind of transition from seeing it as a communications activity, from a communications department to maybe separate departments for sustainability. So, that would be one possible structural organizational change that you might foresee. What other kinds of forms do you think this shift will embody in terms of organizational changes or changes to practice? How do you think it will actually operationalize, if you like, within organizations? >> Well sustainability becomes a management issue in real terms. So every department of a company will effect from that. And sustainability will not be something separate in the organization. You know today in most of companies we see that. Sustainabilities, something different that should be deal with but I think in the future, sustainable to become very natural part of their business processes. So every single personnel in the company will be aware of that. I think it's an important shift because if you ask financial departments what is your sustainable strategy, they can't answer this question today. But in the future I think they will answer that question without looking at their sustainability report or cheating from someone. [LAUGH] >> So they'll internalize the knowledge in a way, it'll be part of their knowledge base. And they'll internalize that into the things that they know about. Okay. >> Exactly. >> Well, [INAUDIBLE] that's been really fascinating. We're just about to come to the end of this conversation. I'm really grateful for you joining us from Turkey to Manchester. Is there anything else that you'd like to tell us about your experience or your advice to participants on the MOOC about your experiences? Or how you think they should proceed if they're interested in a career in sustainability responsibility or this field? What advice would you give them? >> First of all, it's my pleasure to discuss this issue with you. My advice is they have to seek opportunities. Europe is very saturated market for developing sustainable issues because in Europe the improvement started very early and now there are really improved companies. But in Turkey it's not too strange so there are so many opportunities in Turkey, in environmental issues, social and also economic impact, so I think Turkey is a rising star for sustainability market. [LAUGH] Also I have to say that because I forgot this point, some companies are afraid of being lost their credibility by sharing numerical datas or other kind of sustainability information. I just want to encourage them not to be afraid of share information because if you have problem with environmental or other kind of issues, the other companies also experience that problem too. Because the problems or obstacles are similar for all the companies, so sharing them is not a cause for losing credibility. It's about sharing information of how to cope with a similar obstacle or problem. As long as companies are sincere and want to improve, I think it's okay to share any problem or any failure about practices. So there's nothing to be afraid of this. If they are more courage, I think better improvements will be success. >> Well, Joy, that was really fascinating and thank you for that very positive note at the end there that by sharing and improving the knowledge the competencies and companies, having faith that sharing will actually help them all to share experiences and all therefore improve. That's a really lovely, positive note to finish on. Thank you for joining us, Jane Doe, and thank you very much indeed. >> It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. Also I'm sorry for my very, very bad pronunciation [LAUGH] and my poor English. If I confuse you with my words and bad choices, [LAUGH] I'm really sorry for it. >> Perfect and precisely because we're hoping people would participate from around the world, your accent is a joy to listen to and is much better than my accent in any language anyway. So, thank you very very much indeed. Thank you. >> [LAUGH] Thanks very much. >> Same, bye bye. >> Bye bye.