[MUSIC] What about Malvolio? >> Malvolio, I think one has to look at the traditional raison d'etre for the jester. In medieval times, the jester was there to poke fun at the vain. He was there to poke fun at the vanity of the king. He was there to actually mitigate that vanity. He was there as a truth teller for the king. The jester was always in a difficult position because, as a jester, that was his role. He was there to say to Lear, you're a fool, you're an idiot, and here's why. Look at the way you're looking at the world. You're you're completely vain. You're missing the point. He was there to point these things out when nobody else could, nobody else had the license. The fool was there to do that for the king. It was a service done to majesty so that it could bring them down to earth and hopefully make them more wise leaders. So he had a valuable function within the court. And I think Feste inherits that role. I think that his job is to poke fun, to expose vanity, and so he does that with Malvolio. He doesn't find that vanity in Olivia so he doesn't need to fulfill that function for her. Although he does, he says, give me leave to prove you a fool. That's basically give me leave to be what I'm supposed to be. >> Yeah. >> Which is the Jester. I'm supposed to tell you when your grief has made you lose sight. And in fact, why mourn'st thou, is what he say, why mourn'st thou, good madonna? And that's the typical role of the jester. You're you're mourning too much. And so he exposes that to her and she takes it in that spirit. >> Yeah. >> She takes his criticism and goes, and terms to Malvolio and, isn't this, doesn't this fool improve? [LAUGH] >> Yeah. >> But Malvolio, of course, is humorless and he's both vain and humorless. He's ambitious, all the things that a jester would need to expose. So he needs to expose Malvolio and so that's why he gets involved. He has to be that goad for Malvolio. And Malvolio takes himself seriously right to the end, which is why I think Feste actually has to say to him finally and mock him again. Saying, some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrown upon them. I was one, sir, in this interlude, one Sir Topas, sir, but that's all one. And then he said, and he reminds him who he is. He says, yes, you're pathetic. By the Lord, fool, I am I am not mad. And then he said, but do you remember? Remember your vanity, remember your offense. >> Against you. >> Against me, but against good sense. It's a lack of wisdom that he accuses him of. Says, thus the whirligig of time brings in his revenges. >> Yes. >> You deserve this, remember you deserve this. If you don't remember that you deserved it, then you don't get any wiser. As the fool says, my foes tell me plainly I'm an ass, and therefore I profit in the knowledge of myself. Malvolio, unfortunately, proves that he is not a wise person. He says, I'll be revenged on your all, which is beside the point. >> Although, you also say the whirligig of time brings in its revenges. And the one thing you have in common is that you seem to desire revenge. I mean, there are many ways, as you pointed out, that Malvolio and Feste are different. >> Yeah. >> But yet they both seem to want to teach a lesson or exact revenge. I mean, that's always interested me about the two of them. >> Yeah, but I think the difference between Feste's revenge, at least in my view, is that revenge against vanity is his job. It's not Malvolio's job. >> And I hear that and that's a really interesting perspective. Is it his job to dress up Sir Topas? [LAUGH] To get as involved? I mean the escalation of cruelty in this play is interesting. What do you think Shakespeare was after there? >> And why does Feste hang in and get so involved- >> Well >> With the wisdom and perspective that he clearly has? >> Then we have to go to what was happening in the turn of the century in Elizabethan England. Where the Puritans were kind of in an ascendancy, which 40 years later would result in the shutting down- >> Of the theater. >> Of the theater for what? 15 16 years, the Puritans did that. >> Yeah. >> I think Shakespeare saw the writing on the wall politically. And so by putting Sir Topas in there as the Catholic priest, I think it was a facing off of the Catholic and the Protestant within that Elizabeth and culture. And I think neither one of them comes off particularly well. >> Right, right. >> But it was that necessity on Shakespeare's part to humble this Puritan revolution that was burgeoning, and he saw the handwriting on the wall. They were anti-art. >> Right. >> They were anti-theater, and as a result he wanted to punish them. >> Yeah, and I was talking about this in an earlier interview as well. But putting a Puritan or a sympathizer of the Puritans in a play about identity, in a play about people who are playing other parts besides themselves feels appropriate. Because that was one of the things, as I understand, the Puritans really hated. >> And he's basically accusing them of hypocrisy. >> Right. >> Which most self-righteous people are hypocrites. It's just one of those things that comes along with self-righteousness. It's just the way it is. [LAUGH] >> Yeah, yeah. >> So I think that was a, so I think Feste as Shakespeare's ghost in the piece, and a lot of times I think the fools are Shakespeare's ghost. >> Yeah. >> He ghosts himself into the play so that he can make certain things available to his audience. To be their spokesman within this, to point up things that may not be quite so obvious, but that everybody's thinking or wants to say to Lear, to Malvolio, to any number of these people. Although Malvolio gets plenty of derision from everybody else. But I think then the facing off of the priest is definitely Shakespeare kind of putting himself in there. >> I really love that I was able to talk to the actor who played Malvolio. >> Gareth is the best Malvolio I've ever seen. >> Yeah. >> He's really good. >> And he talks a lot about it's just really interesting to have these conversations. Of course, you're sort of taking Feste's side because you're there, >> Yeah. >> He sort of speaks to, I don't want to forgive Malvolio, but he certainly is a victim to the class structure >> And that's one of the most important things that he brings up is that the reason for his ambition is that he is he is stunted by a class conscious society. >> Yeah. >> And of course Shakespeare was equally stunted by that same class consciousness. >> Right. >> And so he understands Malvolio's position that his ambitions, he is incredibly competent. He's a very good administrator, which is what Olivia says. I would not have him fail for half my dowry. >> Right. >> She says, when he exhibits this weirdness, she says, don't let him go down the tubes. He's important to me. I don't want him to fail. He's very good at what he does. So I think that's an important thing to bear in mind. >> Right, and that Shakespeare has a little bit of compassion for the very type of person who was trying to shut his theater down. [LAUGH] You know what I mean? >> Exactly. >> kind of speaks to- >> Exactly, so- >> We've been talking about with. >> And succeeded in shutting his theater down after, well, I think his- >> That was- >> That was after. >> That was later, yeah. >> But they did, they shut it down. >> But as you said, I think he saw the writing on the wall. >> Yeah, I think so. And that's why he has Andrew Aguecheek say, I have no more wit than a Christian. [LAUGH] >> Yeah, right. >> And he's constantly kind of poking at that little contingent. >> Yes.
