>> We have a very full understanding of why the tides go in and
the tides go out, of why the continents drift apart, of why life is there.
Science is evermore piling on the evidence, piling on the understanding.
>> But it had to get there.
I understand that the physiology of it,
if you will, but it had to come from somewhere.
And that is the leap of faith that you guys make.
That it just happened.
>> Well, a leap of faith, you don't actually need a leap of faith.
You're the one who needs a leap of faith because you are actually,
the onus is on you to say why you believe in something.
There's an infinite number of Gods you could believe in and
I take it you don't believe in Zeus or Apollo or Thor.
You believe in presumably the Christian God.
>> Jesus.
>> Jesus.
>> Jesus was a real guy.
I can see him.
>> Yeah. >> I know what he did.
And so, I'm not positive that Jesus is God, but
I'm throwing in with Jesus rather than throw it in with you guys,
because you guys can't tell me how it all got here.
You guys don't know.
>> We're working on it, physicists are.
>> When you get it then maybe I'll listen.
>> Well now, if you look at the history of science over the centuries.
>> Yeah. >> The amount
that's gained in knowledge in each century is stupendous.
In the beginning of the 21st century we don't know everything, we have to be
humble, we have to in humility say that there's a lot that we still don't know.
>> And, being humble is a Christian virtue.
>> Well, yes, it is.
>> All right, when you guys figure it out, then you come back and tell me,
because until that time I'm sticking with Judeo-Christian philosophy and
my religion of Roman Catholicism because it helps me as a person.
>> That's different.
If it helps you as a person [CROSSTALK] that doesn't mean it's true.
>> Well it's true for me.
You see I believe it.
>> You mean true for you is different from true for anybody else.
How can something be true for you.
>> Absolutely because I can't prove.
>> Something's either got to be true or not.
>> No, no.
I can't prove to you that Jesus is god, so that truth is mine, and mine alone.
But you can't prove to me that Jesus is not.
So you have to stay in your little belief system.
>> You can't prove that that Zeus is not,
you can't prove that Apollo is not, or I can't.
>> We saw Apollo man, he was down there and he's not looking good.
Now, we also differ in a sense that you feel that religion has been a bane,
B-A-N-E, to civilization, and I feel atheism has, and
I will point to the worst mass murderers in modern times,
Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
All confirmed atheists.
All people who wanted to wipe out religion.
Now I know you can point to the Crusades, and you can point to Al-Qaeda right now.
I mean, it's there and there's no question.
But I say I'm thrown in with the founding fathers of the United States which saw
religions spirituality as a moderating influence,
as a good thing that people embrace the true tenets.
>> The Founding Fathers of the United States were secularist above all.
Some of them were religious, some of them were not, but they were above all
secularists who believed in keeping Church and State separate.
>> They had to because of the oppression in Europe.
>> That is what they were precisely.
>> Almost all of them.
They all said a prayer before their deliberations in their letters, and
I have almost all their letters, they all reference the deity,
our Declaration of Independence references heavily.
But, they saw it as a moderating influence because the federal government,
at that point, couldn't control the country.
And they say, if people follow Jesus, then the country is gonna be better.
>> It may well be a moderating influence.
As for Hitler's dying.
I mean, of course Hitler, by the way, was a Roman Catholic.
>> Okay. So, on and on it goes.