[MUSIC] So then, unfortunately injuries start to occur and ultimately disabling injury. When I read your bio, that's kind of what I read into it. Can you take us through that experience because these are now, the mature years, and see, as when the cheering stops as we call it in the fourth and final stage. >> Yeah. >> And post-professional stage, you've lived them all, but take us through the second, third and fourth, please. >> Yes. Yeah so I returned to, I returned to Arsenal. Ipswich actually ended up signing a really, really good left-back from Portsmouth at the time and he was very experienced. He'd played all of his career in the Premier League and when he came unfortunately, for the club it was great, unfortunately for me it kind of marked the end of my playing time at Ipswich. So I returned back to Arsenal where I continued playing in the Reserves. In my last game at Arsenal of that season, my contract was actually up and they'd let me know that they would not be renewing my contract so I was free to start speaking with other clubs and everything, and my very last game against Southampton in the 85th minute or something, I got tackled really badly. I felt my knee go, I'd actually already had a meniscus operation when I was 16 years old. And they tried to repair the meniscus, it failed. I had another surgery a year later. So I'd already had two surgeries before going to Arsenal. Minor at that, they're meniscus which a lot of players end up tearing throughout their career. But it certainly weakened my right side to an extent, and when I injured it again, I knew right away that my knee was injured. I ended up having surgery. They cleaned everything out and I spent that summer rehabbing back in the States and in England a bit. And at that point I was out of contract and speaking with a bunch of different clubs, so there's probably about eight or nine clubs in the mix between championship size and League One size at the time. I ended up signing for Burnley. Burnley signed me on a two-year deal, it was actually a real interesting time for Burnley because they just, they had a new manager for about a year I believe. His name was Steve Cotterill. And he basically dumped a bunch of the players. We had eight players I think when I signed. And this was kind of a culture saga. It was pretty amazing going from, first of all it was a culture shock going from Roanoke to London, A. Let's get that. >> Yeah, right. Let's get that straight. >> Yeah. So that was a big culture shock. But then going from London to Burnley was another massive culture shock. And a lot of people actually ask me, what was bigger, like going from Roanoke to London or London to Burnley, what was crazier for you? It was very strange because first, I was at one of the world's best clubs where everything is top class. I mean they have a lot of money, so everywhere from the training pitches to the medical staff, to the the locker rooms and everything, everything is incredible. And then when you go to Burnley and a lot of the other clubs in the world, the situation drops, or will drop drastically and I had to kind of re-acclimatize myself to all that and dealing with that. But at the same time I was also a first team player at this point, so that was very special. At Arsenal I played in the first team but I wasn't particularly considered a first team, player and in the first team dressing room. Now I was far more of a vital element to this side. So I signed a two-year contract there. I had a difficult first year because my knee was still bothering me, and after my knee got better, I had a very strange hip injury like right after it, which kept me out for a little bit. We ended up signing another left back, another very good left back, unfortunately and he kind of took over the number one role in that position. I played kind of intermittently throughout the season came on every so often, but after my first year, I actually wanted out of I wanted out of Burnley at that point just because I didn't see myself in the manager's plans. I got rid of my agent to make this, to stay relevant here. I had actually gotten rid of my agent at that point and I was kind of on the look for new clubs. I went on a run in pre-season my second year. My knee felt very strange and I went to see a doctor in Burnley. And the doctor said we went to see our team doctor and he said that there was nothing inclusive on the scans. So I was like oh, great, so I haven't torn anything. He said which means likely your joint is, in his words knackered. And he said I would consider hanging up my boots. So that hits pretty heavy. I went back home and they said take I went back to my flat in Manchester and they said take six weeks and don't do anything. So I said I'd prefer being back in the States with my family and recovering and doing therapy there. So I actually negotiated out of my contract at Burnley. We came to an agreement on the rest of the contract and then I cut terms with them and moved back to the States to rehab. >> Well, how does insurance factor in there? Is there team, and or personal injury insurance that would cover all the medical bills, and such? >> There is, yeah, there's the player's union in England. The PFA, the Professional Footballers' Association looks after their players quite well and you can put money into it out of your paycheck every single month, so when you do retire, usually there's a lump sum for players, but yeah, while you're there, while you're injured and everything under a club, they look after absolutely everything. You can go get your dental and everything done as well. They make sure that all the players are all they have to focus on is the actual, soccer while we're there. [INAUDIBLE] Once I got terms with the team in England, I had to come home and I had to get my own insurance and take care of myself here. >> Let's go back just quickly to you got rid of your agent. [LAUGH] Was there any particular reason for that, or you just felt like you could do it as well or better yourself? I wouldn't say I could do it just as well or better myself. I just as I said, my first year at Burnley was very trying. I'll put it that way. I felt like the coaching staff maybe took things out on me, even though I couldn't. I was injured. It's part of the game, and I wasn't trying to be injured. I wasn't like faking to be injured. The last thing I want to do is that I wanted to be out on the field. And I'd ask to go out on loan several times. My agent said the manager didn't want to get me out on loan. And I think I kind of started thinking I don't think my agent at the time knew the A, the type of manager that was a Burnley and B, that an American kid who had come over from Roanoke, had become accustomed to life in London and being in a big city where if he felt homesick, he could go to an American restaurant. He could find American people there easily like, I don't think he understood that putting an American kid in Burnley might be kind of detrimental to his A, personal life, and B, obviously that reflects on your, on your soccer life. So, I don't say I took it out on him, but I just think that if he'd really been focused on what I was doing and what I was what I needed at the time, I don't think he would have particularly sent me there. I mean it was a, it's difficult when the players [INAUDIBLE]. personal and you have a chance of becoming one of the world's best. Then obviously the agent is going to put way more focus on you. Once you leave and you go to a smaller club, the agent's probably going to use his resources to go kind of elsewhere. And I just felt at the time that's what was happening. >> Did playing in the MLS occur to you as you were retiring? >> It did yes, actually at the time Paul Mariner who as I mentioned was my, was my coach at ESP, was the assistant coach at New England. And actually every single summer when I came home from England in the off season. Paul was calling me saying we'd love to have you at New England, we'd love to have you at New England. Please think about it, you know? We can put together a really nice financial package for you. And this was all definitely in my mindset. When the doctor said that I should hang up my boots in England, I didn't want to believe it and I don't think I did believe it. So when I came home I basically had the idea that I was just going to do therapy here, get back. And then, let MLS know that I would love to, I'd love to come back to them. They didn't particularly take nicely to me coming back. They don't, they'd come in and it's a very interesting situation with them, because MLS obviously don't like when players leave and then try to come back once they've quote unquote not made it overseas. And not that they punish players. But when I came back, they told the new agent that I'd kind of come, I'd brought a new agent on when I came back to the states to kind of help me with MLS and everything. And they told him I'd turned them down when I was 18 and [INAUDIBLE]. just because I hadn't made it in Europe didn't mean that they should they should reward me with a big contract here in the states. So they actually ended up offering me about $36,000 despite a year, despite having been professionally for four years. Having made my debut for Arsenal, Ipswich, and Burnley. And they kind of just stuck it back at me. And that actually came after I announced I wasn't playing anymore. This was how long it took for them to get back to me. I'd announced already that I wasn't playing anymore. I'd actually started scouting for Arsenal already. And then they returned with that offer to my agent, who responded, he's actually no longer playing, so. >> Too late. It's too late. So now, we're into the post professional years. Thanks for, this has been a great trajectory ride. How are you enjoying the scouting? How did that come about? Arsenal thought so much of you that hired you to scout all of their CONCACAF territories. I guess is what you're doing now. >> Yeah. It was cool. I actually, when I did decide that after about six months of rehab when I came home my knee wasn't really getting any better. I was still in contact with Steve Rowley, who as I mentioned, was the chief scout at Arsenal. And I've had a great relationship with him even since I was 17. A scout and a player's relationship when you do bring a player over and they sign is kind of unique. Because you want everything, you want the best for the kid that you put your name on, and that you've invested all this time into. So I still spoke to him even when I was at Burnley, when I was at Ipswich I spoke to Steve often. And kind of let him know how I was doing, how I was settling everywhere. When I did come home, I was thinking about going back to school and I was actually driving to Virginia Tech when Steve called me. And asked me if I could be, if I was interested in being a scout for them in North America. They actually offered me, or they were thinking about offering me a job as a coach in Colorado. Because Arsenal were just on the verge of announcing a partnership with Colorado Rapids then. And they were going to be doing some sort of academy thing out there. And they asked me initially if I was interested in doing any sort of coaching out there. It didn't particularly piqued my interest. I mean I was interested in clubs like Arsenal were still keen on having me involved in that regard. But when I was driving to Virginia Tech to apply to school, they called, Steve called. And said unfortunately, the coaching gig, they want somebody with way more obviously with coaching experience which makes sense because I didn't have any at the time. But I said I spoke to Wenger and I spoke to Dick Law who's in charge of operations at Arsenal. And we want to offer you the the North American scouting job. Which was basically a job they'd kind of created. Because they saw just how kind of promising this market could become in the near future. >> And you've already had some noteworthy signings, right? I mean, where do you go to find the next Danny? [LAUGH] So to speak. >> Right, it's difficult. It's, there's definitely markets, there's certain markets in the States. And then draw all CONCACAF where you know in general you'll find great talent. Like, if I had the chance to go LA and watch a game or Boise, I'd much rather go to LA and have a better chance of finding talent there. But that doesn't necessarily mean that all the talent is going to come out of there. And I strictly believe that because if somebody said, Arsenal would sign a player from Roanoke, Virginia. Then I'd probably wouldn't believe that. So I can't, you can't discount anywhere in the States, talent can thrive anywhere. Just in certain areas, in Latin-specific areas, or European-specific areas like the Northeast, LA, Texas, all these areas. There tends to be better kids who understand the game. But with that I said, it can be anywhere, which makes the job that much more difficult. But creating a big network of coaches, agents, good people that you trust, national team staff. All these people over the past seven to eight years. I developed great relationships with them. And if there are players that are standing out for whatever reason in any part of the country, hopefully somebody will be giving me a call, quite soon to go check them out. >> How young do you get interested in a player? 14, 16, all depends? >> It yeah, it depends. I saw Gedion Zelalem, was the first the first youngster that I signed. Joel Campbell Joel Campbell was a bit different because we actually bought him and he was a professional already at the time. So with that he was I think, I believe 19 years old. 18 or 19 years old at the time, so that was a bit different. But Gideon was 13 when I initially saw him. And then we ended up bringing him over on trial when he was 14. And then he ended up, I believe moving to England kind of intermittently. Back and forth when he was 16 years old. And now he's over there full time, playing. So it all depends, Arsene Wenger has a pretty nice saying that says, if they're good enough, they're old enough. and it doesn't particularly matter. If you bring a player over and he's able to hold his own and you know that he's able to hold his own. Then it doesn't really matter kind of how old he is. It just so happens that at 14, 15 physically, the body's maturing a little bit more at that point. And they're able to go and do what they need to do. But whenever I had Gideon over on trial at 14, he jumped in with the Reserves. And he jumped in with kids that were had already played in Champion League games. Some of the younger guys that had made their debuts in the Champions League and he didn't look out of place, at all. So it all depends. Where as you could bring some 13 or 14 year old kids over and they're not over 5' tall and they would stick out like a sore thumb. So it all depends really. >> Let me just ask you a couple of final questions for our audience. So now you're counseling a family, and they have a really good player 14-15. And IMG Academy comes calling to play football, soccer football down there. Is that the best player? Should he or she continue to play for their high school team? Or does it all depend? >> So actually more and more kids are starting to steer clear of high school soccer. I think even the development academy now in the States has said has gotten rid of that. And a lot of the clubs if not all of them, at this point. So high school soccer in the States is, it's different because it's great like I played, I played my freshman year and my sophomore year and then I stopped playing. I think I stopped playing halfway through my sophomore year actually because risk of injury. And I think when Americans look at high school sports, they see like the All American high school sports hero. And it's like that's the story you want, is playing in front of your friends, playing in front of your girlfriend, in front of a packed stadium, I mean, it's fun. Because for the most part, playing soccer in the US, nobody really knows what you do. Everybody, you travel every single weekend, you don't get to play in front of your friends. You get to very rarely play in front of your entire family unless you're playing the game at home. So it's very different from what the rest of American sports are like, and I think that's because of the kind of the concentration of talent as well. For us, our club team in Roanoke was the best team in the area and our closest league game was three hours away. So we had to drive three hours at least three hours at the weekend. Our furthest was five just to play in a league game. So the idea of having high school soccer is great because you play Friday night, that's the main event, all your friends are going to be there. It'll be fun and then you'll go to a party afterwards and you're kind of the star of the school. Which every kid, that's they romanticize about that at that age. >> [LAUGH]. >> [LAUGH] So I wouldn't say I think focusing more on club, and now the landscape of American soccer, especially the club level, the youth level has changed dramatically even since I've begun scouting never mind since I left to go play in England. But even so against scouting the development academy has developed and grown exponentially and is becoming a very good place to play your club soccer. It's a very good place to get seen by the national team and at the moment ,I believe there's like 76, maybe 76 clubs throughout the United States. They're considered development academy clubs by the federation and they have to train a certain amount of hours each week, or a certain amount of days. They have kind of a curriculum that they follow that comes down from Jurgen Klinsmann, from the very top of how he wants his teams to play and everything. So, it's becoming much more structured, which means, for the sake of things, you don't have to go to IMG. You don't have to go to Florida and be one of 40 kids in the country to become a better player. What they're trying to do and what they're trying to accomplish is, bring IMG or these academies into 76 different clubs. And I think we're still a long way from that to an extent, but it's definitely a move in the right direction. >> Last question, so now you're talking to a 16, 17-year-old the next Danny, who's got a chance to make it for Arsenal. What would be the go, no-go advice you would give the next player like yourself, as to whether or not to take that college scholarship, or to sign with Arsenal. Let's make him 17, just like you were on your way to your senior year, your last year of eligibility, and he's got Harvard out there as his option. Let's make it your option. >> I think it's just knowing your expectations, knowing kind of what you want in this life that you've set out for yourself. I started playing soccer when I was five years old. And I was born and my Dad's Iranian and my mom's Italian. So I was born in a very soccer crazy house already to begin with, so they never try to persuade me to do anything. They've always supported me with everything that I would have done. And even if I had said no to Arsenal and gone to college, they would have been completely content with that. But, I think just knowing kind of what you're getting into is the most important part. And now, more and more kids are starting to go over to England and have these experience, or Europe, in general. Sign professional contracts when they're 16, 17 years old, and having these experiences. Which is only going to make awareness in the states of what it means to be a professional in Europe that much more. When I went over there I knew it was going to be a lot of hard work, but also, to an extent, I thought what you see on TV on a Saturday morning at 10 am is what the life is like of every footballer. But there's a lot of stuff that goes on, the other six days of the week away from the cameras away from all the limelight. That, you know, you need to sort through in order to actually make it on the field that day. I think for me, I was always for me, it was always a goal to become a professional. I didn't know how I was going to do it, whenever anybody asked me, even in college, they said, what do you see as your goals? I said well, at the end of the day I just want to become a professional soccer player. And when I was presented with this with this opportunity, I always knew that I could go back to college if I wanted to and go get my education if I wanted to. I wouldn't always be able to become a professional athlete if I wanted to. And I wanted to take full advantage of that when the opportunity came. So I took the opportunity and ran with it. I've spoken to kids here that when I ask them, can you see yourself living in London and playing soccer professionally? Some of them say no, right off the bat. So I think it's really down to yourself and knowing what you want to do. What you want to do with your life if you're willing to take these giant risks and go over there. When when I was on my trial at Arsenal, I'll just give you a really quick anecdote. When I was on my trial at Arsenal, just to show you how, kind of how difficult it is even to make it there. The chief scout told me, there's a 99% chance that you won't make it at Arsenal. And this is, coming from a club that's trying to sign you, imagine if they didn't want to sign you. >> [LAUGH]. >> [LAUGH] What would they being saying? But he told me outright, you likely won't make it. But it's the idea of that 1% chance of you actually making it is what drives, drives kids to practice every single day and take a contract when it's thrown in front of them. So I think it's really down to personal preference, what you want to do with your life and how far you want to go with it. >> Great answer, Danny. [COUGH] You've been a great guest. Our class is really privileged to have heard your career path, and we can't thank you enough for sharing as much as you have with us. Is there anything else you'd like to tell our audience? >> No, I mean, really as I said, I've been kind of unfortunate in terms of the injuries and everything, and as I just mentioned, I always wanted to become a professional soccer player and I had no idea. I knew I would become a professional, I just didn't know how, and then when that was all taken away from me, I had to really decide what do I do next? Because I'd spent my entire life focusing on one thing kind of, and one thing only as to what I wanted to do. I think being able to kind of adapt and realize things happen in life and things always, they don't always end up the way you want them to end up. But if you keep fighting and you keep going and you have to set new goals for yourself and work towards those and then things can still end up okay. If you told me when I was 22 that I wouldn't be able to play soccer anymore and I'm 30 now and that everything would be okay. I wouldn't have believed you because I was in a very, very dark area at that time of my life. But now, I'm focusing my energy on a lot of different things now, and I'm excited about them and I still enjoy the thing I'd focused on for so long in my life. I still enjoy soccer so much, but I'm putting a lot more of my energy into other places now. And things can definitely become better even when things are taken away from you. >> Thank you so much for sharing that with our audience. Now Danny, I'm going to cheer for Arsenal because I want to cheer for you. >> [LAUGH] Thank you very much. >> Okay. All right, thank you very much, and thanks to our audience for being with us, and we'll continue our soccer module with our next guest in our next session. Thank you again, Danny. [SOUND]
