[MUSIC] Welcome back to Representing the Professional Athlete. It's my privilege and pleasure to welcome via Skype my good friend Professor Ron Katz who runs the Santa Clara Sports Law Institute. Ron, welcome to our program. Thanks for having me, Peter. >> Absolutely, we want to hear all about your program. Take us from the beginning when you began the institute. And how it's lead to the Safer Soccer Initiatives and some of the accomplishments that you've achieved through your institute. >> Well it started out, I had won a big case on behalf of 2,000 retired NFL players in their publicity rights. So as a result of that, I was very deeply into the field of sports law and I started teaching at Santa Clara. And, of course, at that time people began to notice what a big business sports was, so larger law firms like my law firm, I'm at Manatt Phelps, started getting into that business. And as often happens, there's symposia around the country on the subject. I looked at the symposia and I said you know, I could put on a better symposia then this- >> [LAUGH] >> Just because I know so many people. And we started with that. Our first speaker was Jim Brown, one of the great football players, and we had Allan Schwarz of the New York Times and the managing partner of the San Francisco Giants, and it just went on and on. And we put on a few of those, and what we found was that what interested people most was the ethical issues. So, for example, concussions or performance enhancing drugs or use of people's images without authorization, cheating. I mean, there's no shortage of ethical issues in sports, as you know. So from that we said well, we're at Santa Clara University, it's a Jesuit institution, and ethics is part of their core mission. So we decided that we would start an Institute of Sports Law and Ethics, and I thought that we would have competition. But when I looked out there, there were none. >> [LAUGH] >> We're the only one in the world that focused exclusively on sports and ethics. So, as time went by, we revisited the concussion subject which is a huge subject. And of course, the initial attention was on football and hockey. But we focused on soccer, and we brought in a group of doctors to speak about the dangers of heading in soccer, especially for young people. And I asked Brandi Chastain, who's a iconic women's soccer player, played on our championship teams and our Olympic teams, and that iconic photo of her. I asked her if she would chair that. And she said yes, I'm glad to do it, but her reaction was like that of many great soccer players, that this is really not a problem if you do things correctly. It's just a problem of technique. So I said fine, it's a free marketplace of ideas. Whatever idea you have is great and doctors may have other ideas. And so she became the chairman of that group, and I think that by educating herself with all these very distinguished doctors she came out with a very different point of view. Which is that there's no technique that can help a six year old who's heading a soccer ball. So from that, the Institute gave its, we have an award every year called the Ethics of Sports Award. And we awarded that to Dr. Robert Cantu and Kristen Oinski of the, at time it was called the Sports Legacy Institute. I think it's now called the Concussion Legacy Foundation. And I got them together with Brandi Chastain. That was right before the Mens World Cup. And we decided that we would the Safer Soccer campaign. And Brandi was the perfect person for that because first of all, she's a world-class athlete, so what she says about athletics has a lot of credibility. And secondly she's the mother of an eight year old boy who plays soccer. So she has those interests at heart. So from that came the Safer Soccer program, and I'm pleased to report that as of yesterday, reported in today's New York Times, that there's a huge settlement of a lawsuit that's out there. And now the US Soccer is on board for greatly diminishing heading for children under 14 years old. It's a tremendous victory. >> Tremendous, we want to plumb the depths of that wonderful settlement. But let's go back to sort of representing the pre-professional athlete. Here and now, how will proper technique and no headers prior to the age of 14, will it advance, detract from, or add to the capacity of Brandi's son to become a professional soccer player? What's the view on that? >> Well, I think Brandi was very articulate on that and we have some other very distinguished world-class athletes with her, Cindy Cone, Daniel Truman. And what they have said is that there's so many things to learn in soccer, foot skills and spacing, etc., etc., that if you put off the heading part until age 14 you'll just improve your other skills and then you'll catch up with heading later on. And there will not be any detriment to your ability to get a college scholarship or to become a professional soccer player if that's the case. But I should also add that this dream of many parents, that their child is going to get a college scholarship, is almost an illusion. I mean, very small percentage gets college scholarships. And the idea that their child will be a professional athlete is even a greater illusion. Just a very, very small percentage of people, much less in 1% become professional athletes. >> And in this course we teach even a fraction of that 1% are able to live the rest of their lives off of what they make as a professional athlete, a fraction of 1% >> Well, and many of those, particularly football and hockey players, live the rest of their lives with mental and physical disabilities. >> Right, right. Well, let's go back to Dr. Robert Cantu, a good friend of both of ours. So what did his study say? Why is 14 that critical age for brain development? Now we can go ahead and allow for headers at age 14? >> Well, I think there's three major points. The first point is that with young children, their head is so much bigger in proportion to their neck than it is for adults. So they're like little bobbleheads. So when some force acts with their head, their brain is moving much more violently than it would for someone who has reached puberty. Secondly, there's a lining of the brain called myelin. And that lining helps to protect against the effects of concussions. It's sort of like an insulation for a wire. And that lining does not develop fully until adolescence. And the third point, and I think it's really the most important point, is that children really are not capable of giving informed consent to some activity which may affect their mental acuity for life. They are not giving informed consent and they don't have the ability to challenge their coaches. If you're an adult and your coach tells you to do something which you thinks bad for your health, you're going to maybe, likely, protest. But if you're eight years old you're just going to do what you're told. So I think children are particularly vulnerable in this situation. >> Yeah, and Ron, now do take us to the settlement and its details, celebrated in New York Times, all over the press this morning, so what a great time for the interview. What about return to play? What about independent advice on when it's appropriate for someone who has had a concussion, or close to a concussion in soccer through a header. What does that settlement talk about return to play and independent medical advice in connection with that? >> Well, the settlement is really, it's not even fresh off the press. So I have to say I have not seen the settlement yet. It was confidential until last night. I've seen only the New York Times account of it this morning. So I really cannot give you the details. I can tell you that what the complaint alleged was that there are very well-recognized international protocols for return the play and other things that have to happen in terms of concussions. And it appears that US Soccer has accepted those. The ones that were highlighted in the New York Times article today have to do with heading in games and heading in practice for children who are under 14 years old. So that is clearly, I think it's prohibited in games and I think it's greatly limited in practices. So unfortunately, I just cannot get more details at this time. >> But let's expand that and talk about it. So a best practice, we've learned from Concussion Legacy Foundation at least minimum two weeks before return to play. You must have independent medical advice prior to allowing a child to return to play. Let's make him over 14, let's make it football. All these best practice, that's what your whole institute ethics teaches, right? I mean, there has to be independent advice to intrude, otherwise a parent saying get back in there sonny boy because we need to get that scholarship. That sort of thing. Right, or we need to win that meaningless game. >> Yes. [LAUGH] Right, right. >> I don't know if you know who was the AYSO champion in your grade, three years ago. Probably was not a very important thing in the scheme of things. So I think what's happened here is particularly important because it's the first step. And once you take the first step, once you acknowledge that this is a problem, then you really must take all the other steps. I don't think you can say well, we're going to prohibit heading but we're going to let the kid stay in the game if he's staggering around with a concussion. I just don't think that's going to happen. So I think ultimately all of these protocols will be accepted. And these are not protocols of wild-eyed radicals. I mean, these are distinguished, international physicians who are experts in this field. Of course, Bob Cantu is probably the top expert. Concussion is about to get a lot more publicity because on December 25th a major motion picture is coming out starring Will Smith who's portraying Dr. Bennett Omallo who was the doctor who discovered CTE, which is the worst problem that can result from all this. So concussions are in the news. And I think that soccer is now joining football and hockey in establishing much safer and better practices. >> Let's expand, great answer. Thanks, so let's expand on that. We watched the women's World Cup blood on the floor, blood on the field. Gosh, can you count backwards from ten, you're back in the game. What about the protocols at the international level? I mean, that has still to evolve at this best practices, doesn't it Ron? >> Well, I think that we can say with some certainty that FIFA has not had as its highest priority- >> [LAUGH] >> Safety of the players. They've had other things on their mind. And that has had an effect in every part of the game, including safety. Hopefully, that will change now. There's major changes going on in FIFA, and hopefully that will include more safety-oriented rules. I mean, we saw in the match of the World Cup this German player was staggering around the pitch because of their substitution rules, which really disincentivized a team from taking out a player who obviously is concussed. So I think again, it has to change. Now the snowball is rolling down the hill, and all of these things are going to happen. And hopefully the stables of FIFA will be cleaned up. >> Anything you want add going all the way back to the beginning for our worldwide audience? Our last offering this course stretched to 140 countries, Ron, so going all the way back to your Santa Clara Institute. Anything else you want to say to our worldwide audience when this reruns after the first of the year? >> Well, ethical victories are few and far between. Sports is a big business now, and you see more victories that have to do with money than with ethics. But I would say, if you're interested in that, just persist. And the timing of this interview is particularly propitious because here we just had this victory which will literally save millions of children from having problem. Millions of children, and into the future. And I just can't tell you how gratifying that is and well worth waiting for. >> Thank you so much. Our audience appreciates so much your being with us Ron, and thanks for being a good friend and professional colleague. That's the most important part of all. >> Okay, Peter, be ethical. [LAUGH] >> All right you too, we'll be back. Thanks. [SOUND]
