[MUSIC] ABN AMRO is one of the leading sustainable banks. It wants to help the clients with the transition to a sustainable business practices. It also wants to have a better customer experience with a positive net promoter score. And finally, the bank itself wants to become future proof by strong engagement remnants of all its employees. So ABN AMRO is one of the leading place as sustainable banking. As the world is changing, ABN AMRO sees the business case for stability. Could you shortly indicate what your approach is to sustainable banking? >> Well, sustainability is at the heart of the strategy of ABN AMRO. The bank went once to accelerate the sustainability shift by making its own operations and its products and services more and more sustainable. And already for private banking, a sustainable investment portfolio is the standard offer. So the choice is to opt out and all business clients should be easy screened in 2019. And it is our ambition to raise the energy efficiency of all the real estate to refinance to an average of label A reducing carbon emissions in 2030. And this is really a big impact for a bank with 40% of its assets tied up in residential mortgages. So in practice, every relationship manager has to discuss sustainability risks and opportunities with his and her clients. And why? Well, we see a business case in supporting our clearence towards a more sustainable business model by offering new products and solutions such as green bonds, social bonds, circular deals, and sustainability link loans. We want to be at the forefront of the bank that implements the standards for sustainable business, such as the principles of responsible banking. And the UN guiding principles for business and human rights. >> It looks good, but it's not always easy to apply and day-to-day banking. What are the biggest obstacles to sustainable banking? >> The biggest obstacle is maybe that doing business as usual still pays. And the purpose of the bank is banking for better for generations to come. And I hope you recognize the sense of urgency to change how we do business, and that means that we are in the middle of change process that requires thinking and new ways of working. And you know the change requires hard work. And some challenges that the world faces even as for systemic change. And a bank or client can never fix this zone and this requires a much bigger effort from all the actors such as regulator states and geo roundtables and section iniciativez. And this takes time. I'm very passionate about respecting human rights. In general, I see a bigger struggle to implement social aspects of sustainability than the more tangible and technical environmental dimension. For instance, the Dutch Central Bank's states that climate risk is a financial risk. But human rights risk are not yet equally recognized and this is exactly why human rights is a focus area in the bank strategy. Over 5 million individuals and families bank with us. 20,000 people work for ABN AMRO and millions of people work for our clients and companies in our investment universe. So for us, banking is about people. So it is imperative that we look at all our activities from a human rights perspective. And I'm proud to say that we are recognized as a leader in this respect. >> You mention that ABN AMRO's account managers have to discuss sustainability with clients. How did you train all your account managers? >> We have training sessions and awareness sessions on multiple levels, from general awareness sessions to specific training on the jobs. For all our lending clients, we develop dedicated sector questionnaires and scorecards that address environmental and social issues. And not only for big international companies, but also for Dutch SMEs. That this not only provide the bank with sustainability client data, but also gives insights to our clients about their sustainability performance, according to our policy standards. >> Antoher obstacle is when existing clients are not responsive and want to continue their unsustainable practices. If these practices are not compatible with ABN AMRO sustainability policies, what do you do with these clients? Are you just redrawing credit? >> In general, clients are responsive, but they do care for an efficient process. And that's why we usually combine the sustainability conversations with our onboarding credit and review processes. And the bank has an inclusive approach. And this means that if a company does not meet our sustainability standards, we allow the client time to improve, provided the client is willing and able to agree to time-bound action plan. And when clients are active in challenging sectors or have specific issues, we intensify our engagement and monitoring efforts. In those cases, board members of the bank are involved. And ultimately, if process stays behind, we can decide to exit the client. With exit means loss of leverage. >> There're strong competition in international project finance to prevent underbidding on sustainability criteria. ABN AMRO bank was one of the initiators of the Equator Principles, which formulate minimum sustainability standards for financing big project. How does that work in practice? >> In project finance, you know the use of proceeds. And the Equator Principles set a sustainability standard for the different phases of the project to be executed by the project sponsors. The parties behind the project on the one hand, and the participating banks on your hand. And the benchmark is the IFC performance standards. So this guarantees a certain level of environment and social due diligence, performance, and management of the findings. But there are other examples of collective standards. They're responsible ship recycling standards, which aimed to promote responsible ship recycling. And the Poseidon Principles, which are a new global framework for responsible ship finance. >> Thank you, Mariana for the interesting examples. Just to conclude, what is in your opinion the biggest challenge for adopting sustainability across the entire banking system? >> Well, one of my concerns is greenwashing. Banks pretending to be more sustainable but only selling what looks like a sustainable product from the outside, but not really changing the system and shifting the trillions that is needed. Another concern is that governments are undermining existing initiatives for instance and conservation of nature. And a final concern is the base of change. I'm afraid that the gap between the progressive leaders and the laggards in certain parts of the world will grow bigger and bigger while we lose a level playing field. And therefore, I think it's good that governments and regulators step in and turn the wheels in the right direction by rewarding and supporting the willing. [MUSIC]
