Part 2: Teachers and Teachers Unions in Charter Schools

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From the course by The University of Chicago

Critical Issues in Urban Education

42 ratings

The University of Chicago

Critical Issues in Urban Education

42 ratings

Urban school reform in the United States is characterized by contentious, politicized debate. This course explores a set of critical issues in the education and educational reform space, with a focus on aspects of the field that have sparked controversy and polarized views. We will dig into these debates, situating them within the larger history of public education and school reform, and considering the viewpoints, the evidence, and translation of issues into educational policy. We will consider three broad topics in this course: 1. Federal Strategies in School Reform: How has the federal government legislated and incented public school reform? 2. School Choice: How does school choice aim to improve schools? 3. Accountability: What is the history of accountability in American public schooling? What are the policies and practices associated with accountability? Learning Goals This course will enable participants to: 1. develop an informed historical perspective about public schooling in the United States; 2. understand the unique contextual elements of the American approach to public schooling; 3. analyze and assess divergent viewpoints about American public school history and school reform policy. Teachers may be able to receive continuing education credit for successful completion of this course. To earn continuing education credits students must purchase and earn the Course Certificate, which they can then submit to the credit-issuing agency in their state. Students should also fill out the requisite paperwork stating that the affiliated provider is the Graham School at the University of Chicago, and that average time for certificate-level course completion is 18 hours. Students outside of Illinois should contact their state’s accreditation board to determine whether this course is eligible for continuing education credit. Note that it is up to the schools or districts that employ teachers to decide whether this course meet their requirements.

From the lesson

Interlude 2: Interview and Panel Discussion on School Choice and Charter Schools

We had the pleasure of interviewing several experts in the education space from around Chicago and the Urban Education Institute. Listen as they discuss issues surrounding School Choice and Charter Schools. They will have a variety of perspectives from that of a researcher to a practitioner. Which do you identify with? Did any of the participants resonate with you?

Part 1: The Theory Behind School Choice20:31

Part 2: Teachers and Teachers Unions in Charter Schools7:42

Part 3: Charter School Results10:16

Meet the Instructors

Sara Ray Stoelinga
Sara Liston Spurlark Director and Clinical Professor
Urban Education Institute

[MUSIC]

So we have been talking a lot at the kind of system level about choice and

charter schools.

But Alex, let's talk a little bit about the teacher perspective on this.

So if we think about charter schools, what are the opportunities for

teachers relative to charters and

what are some of the challenges, both in the broad perspective of being a teacher,

but also from the perspective of the Teacher's Union.

>> Yeah, and I would say especially in answer to this question to others is that

we are talking about charter schools as this sort of model.

And in actuality there are, it is not, and

there are very different charter schools all over the place and

there are some charter schools that I think, and some CMO's that teachers love,

in general, love working for and feel very very passionate about.

And I think there are other charter schools where teachers are uniformly

almost unhappy, which is in some ways very similar to the public system as a whole.

I think that in the best charter schools,

there is teachers, there is a commitment to adult learning.

And there's a commitment to teacher leadership, and teacher voice.

And in those schools, there is a great deal of time given to

teacher collaboration, to teacher growth.

And the one sort of caveat that I would make, even about those places,

is that I think one of the things that the charter movement is sort of running up

against is that it expects a tremendous amount of its teachers.

And that is okay when teachers are 25 and

are willing to work until 8:00 every night.

When teachers start to have families of their own and

start to sort of look at a longer career, those types of hours,

that type of commitment becomes very difficult.

And so even the best charter schools, I think, are having trouble creating what

I would say is sort of a sustainable teacher culture within their schools.

At the worst charter schools for

teachers the absence of a union I think really hurts.

The union is built to

ensure a degree of teacher voice, to ensure a degree of teacher protection.

And without those structures I think some CMO's and

charters very much take advantage of their workforce and

they do so to the detriment of their students.

>> So, Marv, I want to make sure you get in here.

This whole idea of the movement towards unionizing charter schools,

which is certainly emergent on the landscape here in Chicago and elsewhere,

but what are your thoughts on that piece?

>> Well, first of all, I'm proud to say that I've been involved with several

unionization efforts and charter school movement and

I think your point is very well taken Alex, that

the non-unionized charter schools, when they work, they're really the product

of kind of benevolent dictatorships, and that's the way I felt at my school.

And I think our teachers were happy but that was entirely in my hands.

And I don't think that's a safe system to operate.

So I've seen the exploitation

of charter school teachers in terms of the number of hours they're expected to

work that the kinds of responsibilities that are heaped on their shoulders.

And one of the by products of that, as I'm sure you know, is

the incredible churn that exists in a lot of charter schools, tremendous turnover,

especially in the kind of unhappy charter schools that you're describing.

And we're talking about serving kids who already have

tremendous amount of instability in their lives.

So that turnover of teachers adds

another level of unhealthiness to their educational experience.

>> Describe the school choice movement as sort of a bow between,

you might say sort of capitalism and a more sort of social.

So then you might think that I would be pro-unionization in the charter

school space, and frankly I'm not.

I'm not sure that that is the answer.

I think the answer lies in this notion of accountability to

innovation with the core being student learning.

And I'm not sure that the notion of protecting

adults in a framework like that is one that necessarily.

Adds to those goals at the end of the day, because I think what

happens is you then roll into this bureaucracy and calcification

model where people are not necessarily focusing on what the, their work and

the goal is, but on protecting themselves from the organization.

So I have mixed feelings, but I'm not so much on the fence in terms of I

don't think that a union movement in charter schools is going to be,

at the end of the day, helpful for improving student learning.

>> You want to add to that, Bill?

>> This is a great panel.

>> [LAUGH] >> I mean, it really is.

And just in terms of thinking and you've got people coming at it and

arguing against the positions that they've long held in their professional minds.

Because we're thinking about things in these complicated ways, so

I I agree with Orrin in terms of, innovation is not safe.

>> Right. >> You know?

By doing something new and interesting and out there is not safe.

I also agree with Marv in that it disgusts me when teachers are mistreated.

>> Mm-hm.

>> It's not right.

So I think I would kind of.

You know, maybe benevolent dictatorship is the term, maybe it's leader.

>> [LAUGH] >> Or community leader, right?

I think when it's working, it's works well.

When it's not, it's really bad.

>> Just as there are charter schools, and there are charter schools.

>> Yeah. >> It's a collection of very strange

bedfellows.

>> [LAUGH] >> Yeah.

>> There are Unions and there are Unions.

>> That's right.

>> And I think we would all agree that there have been

serious abuses on the part of Unions >> Mm-hm.

>> In the way they've operated and the way they've actually constrained

innovation and good outcomes for students, but

now when I look at some of the union contracts that unionized

charter schools have created, they don't look like the traditional union charters.

And I think that's >> That's fair.

[MUSIC]

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